Panasonic needs a serious wake up call.......

[zzffnn]

The mkI works with Dual IS (just not Dual IS2, which is only marginally better). Good luck finding it cheap though.

Yeah, that lens seems to be going at eBay for $300 shipped. Not that cheap.

If the OP or anyone here consider that lens worthless or useless, please PM me and donate it to me I can provide, as trade, copyright of some of my published work.

 

[Sam0912]

As long as Panasonic makes profits enough to keep investing in new tech, I’m happy enough. My GF1 still takes decent photos, as do my mki 12-35 and 35-100 lenses, so I do t find myself waking in the night in cold sweats, worrying about their product strategy just yet

 

[PakkyT]

In fact in 2017, 85% of the photographs taken will be with a smartphone and 4.7% with their tablet. Only 10.3% of photographs were taken with a digital camera.

Smartphones and tablets ARE digital cameras. So it would appear you are stating 100% of all photos are taken with digital cameras.

I would argue you could say the same sort of thing back in the 70s through the 90s were probably 10% of photographs were taken with an SLR and the other roughy 90% were taken with some sort of compact, point and shoot, easy to use film camera (126, 35mm, 110, disc, polaroid, etc.). In my mind nothing has really changed. It is just that the form factor of a "compact" "point & shoot" camera happens to now usually be a mobile phone.

The only difference now is back then if you bought a camera it did one thing, took pictures, so only people interested in photography bought one. Now you buy a smartphone that can do a million things and most buy them for things like phone calls, text, internet, etc. That they all also happen to be very capable cameras has made a LOT of people who may not have ever considered photography as a hobby active shutterbugs and so I think the over all camera industry as well as associated industries (book makers, printer manufacturers, prints, online sharing sites, optics manufacturers, semiconductor industry, etc.) are better off for it.

 

[speedy]

Heck if I have to take out my phone to share photos, I'll just use my phone to take photos

Why? They're two completely different activities. And two completely different form factors, with radically different available focal lengths/field of view. When someone makes a phone with good manual controls, an EVF, & capability to shoot ultrawide to telephoto, I'll be the first in line to buy one. Until then......................

 

[Drdave944]

Use the phone app that goes with your camera. Get the best of both worlds.

 

[PakkyT]

Wow... I kinda see it in an opposite way. Many people (who were not photographers, enthusiasts, or hobbyists) bought P&S cameras for family, vacations, events, etc. before the capable camera'd smartphone. Now they don't have to and aren't. The only folks buying cameras now are folks that are more serious about it, and I feel that is a reasonably small percentage of the group that bought cameras pre smartphone.

No I think we are stating the same thing. Yes, non-photographers usually had a simple camera for things like birthdays and vacations, but then that was about the only time they ever used them. Remember people saying things like I have to finish this roll sometime so I can get it developed, it has the photos from our vacation last summer. So yes, as you said, these were non photographers. Now with smartphones being their main camera, they still take their birthday and vacation photos but since their camera is now always in their pocket or purse, those "non-photographers" are now shooting more in a week that many people shot in a year back with the old film based p&s cameras. They will never buy another dedicated camera again, but they will continue to buy a device that works as a camera for years to come.

Photography in general is at an all time high. It is just some like to write articles about the death of cameras as some sort of statement about a photography decline. Instead they are only pointing out the decline of certain types of photography equipment in favor of new types, just like it has always been over the decades.

Likewise the decline in the sales of dSLRs is not an indication of people not wanted the type of equipment that takes those types of shots. Instead it is a movement to new types of equipment, in particular mirrorless designs, to continue to take those same types of high quality shots you got with a dSLR but now with equipment that can do that and a whole lot more. Note also that the rise in sales of dSLRs were at a time when they became affordable and easy to use and when cell phone cameras were pure crap. So soccer moms and dads were buying them for the high quality photos without having to know anything about the exposure triangle and most never took them out of Auto mode nor used anything other than the two lens kit that came with the body. Then mobile phones really started to work on putting great cameras in their devices and those soccer moms and dads were happy with those. They were not likely to be the ones to move on to mirrorless models and post here agonizing about their next lens purchase.

 

[pondball]

odd train going here... with respect to phone cameras and 'real' cameras

my intent is to use my real camera to get the shots I want and I can't see doing that with any phone available today... however once I've got my shot, edited as I want it is also my intent to share the ones I want to share through my phone. I might only have a few hundred photos loaded on my phone but I can't imagine anyone wanting to sit through viewing more than a couple dozen photos...

Personally I have little patience for sitting through shot after shot that look the same...

 

[PakkyT]

My point is "why should you have to get your phone involved" at all? The camera has the ability to process raw as jpeg, it has the ability to connect to wifi, so why do we need to drag out our phone and drain its battery for sharing? Camera has replaceable battery, most phones do not.

Your camera connects to the internet via wifi so you can upload directly to your favorite sharing sites directly from the camera? Which model are you talking about?

Mine, E-M1, only acts as a host creating its own network allowing a phone or tablet to connect to it to grab photos from the camera. No direct uploading of the photos from my camera to anywhere on the internet.

 

[Deleted member 2604]

<snip>
In between the GX80/81 were launched. I recall taking the GX80/81 out for its 1st street show when I noticed how the sensor were rattling in the camera body when the camera was switched off. Dual IS (or what version thereof between the GX8 and the GX80/81 just did not really worked) I got rid of both these bodies so fast, especially when looking at the color from the GX80/81 at the time......<snip>

Do we accept Trolls on this forum nowadays?

 

[Stanga]

For example... my G85 can automatically connect to my wireless LAN and upload photos to Google Drive as I take them. But it can't connect to one of the thousands of Xfinity hot spots that are ever present around me, nor can it post those images to a specific shared directory in Google Drive. These are really simple tweaks they could make, and I am surprised they haven't already done it. As for other OEMs, well as I said before their implementations require the use of a phone and are just sad in their workflow.

Because to do that you would need JavaScript enabled and the ability to accept cookies. That would mean installing an OS inside the camera.

 

[pondball]

Because to do that you would need JavaScript enabled and the ability to accept cookies. That would mean installing an OS inside the camera.

Truly, I don't want to have to pay extra $$ for a computer inside my camera... I just want to take photos. Nor do I want to take photos with my computer.

Really, the phone is just a decent go between for when I don't want to carry either a camera or a computer. With a phone I don't expect to get great quality photos nor computing power... but that doesn't mean it doesn't serve a purpose.

 

[Listener]

Thank you for all the replies, I read them all. I will not reply to each individually, my apologies...what is clear I dropped in a little controversial, my intend was not to troll or stir. I respect this forum and I look forward to learn from all the loyal followers and users on this forum. My name is Siegfried, I have been a long time user and extreme enthusiast or the M43 format. My preference has always been towards Olympus but at the same time I always had a Panasonic body or lens in my bag mainly to try or answer my curiosity.

Many commented on the 2nd hand camera market. Here a few thoughts. In my case equipment provide as much joy as taking images and doing video projects. As you can appreciate this can quickly results in extreme cost and high losses. Over the years I developed great experience buying and selling camera gear and on an annual basis I manage to show no losses or even a reasonable profit.

I do this by predominantly buying "new" 2nd hand gear, to try it and test it and to let go again. Interesting are those I keep for longer periods. These "great" units I will keep for max 2,5 years so as to not loose to much when selling again. This is why the 2nd hand market can be extremely interesting.

Prior to writing my OP I was looking at a GH5 thinking I will buy it as I knew I would be able to sell it again in 6 months if needed. The uncertainty of what the just announced GH5s or the G9 would do to the GH5 price made me wait. I was really interested in the GH5. My son is a pro photographer and only use Sony. He tried the GH5 and gave some negative feedback making me react like you guys did. I would have loved to try it and to know for myself if what he saw was correct or settings based.

On the original Panny "Pro" lenses I realize that optically not much changed. I am aware the 100-300 has some difference, think it is coating. Optics also changed to the updated lenses...all black versus the 2 tone of the older lenses. One reason 2nd hand prices could drop are people upgrading to the new version in order to benefit from Dual IS......

Not trolling.....I think Olympus did better building a clear brand strategy. EM1, EM5 and PEN series are great examples of this. Also the Olympus Pro lens series are the same over many years. This creates confidence....

Again, thanks for the replies.........

Siegfried

Still slagging Panasonic because of resale value concerns I see. The GH5s hasn't been announced and the G9 isn't on sale yet and you are already ranting about their affect on the GH5 resale value. None of your complaints stated here come from your own use of Panasonic cameras or lenses.

Panasonic has established a clear brand identity for making high quality stills and video in one camera. They have continued to develop those capabilities from the GH3 on. It seems to be producing good high-margin sales for the GH4 and GH5 and higher volume sales for the G7 and G80/81/85.

Video isn't a major consideration for me but the G6/G7 and G85 cameras meet my needs (and my wife's) better than any other ILCs available. We both use Olympus 60 mm macro lenses for flower/insect closeups and love them on our Panasonic cameras. For wildlife, I use a Panasonic 100-400 zoom and my wife currently uses a Panasonic 100-300 zoom (first version). They work well for us. I just got a Panasonic 45-200mm zoom and was very pleased with the photos I got on my first outing. I did my homework before spending money and am happy to keep the cameras and lenses we chose.

If you choose to buy cameras and lenses and then sell them in six months, that's your choice even if it makes no sense to me. However, I can't sympathize with your complaints that buying and selling at short intervals is getting too expensive for you. Perhaps you should change your strategy.

 

[Northland]

My point is "why should you have to get your phone involved" at all? The camera has the ability to process raw as jpeg, it has the ability to connect to wifi, so why do we need to drag out our phone and drain its battery for sharing? Camera has replaceable battery, most phones do not.

If you are outdoors where there is no WiFi having cellular data on your phone allows you to upload your camera photos instantly.

I have a G85 and a Samsung S8+ phone with 6GB monthly of cellular data so I can connect the G85 via WiFI to the phone and edit the photos (in Snapseed or Google Photos) on the phone and upload them when I am outdoors hiking, skiing or snowshoeing which I do everyday. The S8+ battery lasts up to 38 hours on power saving mode so drain is not an issue. The Samsung S8+ has a 6.2" display, takes good photos at 28mm and is a fantastic GPS device with the Gaia GPS mapping app.

 

[TNcasual]

Still slagging Panasonic because of resale value concerns I see. The GH5s hasn't been announced and the G9 isn't on sale yet and you are already ranting about their affect on the GH5 resale value. None of your complaints stated here come from your own use of Panasonic cameras or lenses.

Panasonic has established a clear brand identity for making high quality stills and video in one camera. They have continued to develop those capabilities from the GH3 on. It seems to be producing good high-margin sales for the GH4 and GH5 and higher volume sales for the G7 and G80/81/85.

Video isn't a major consideration for me but the G6/G7 and G85 cameras meet my needs (and my wife's) better than any other ILCs available. We both use Olympus 60 mm macro lenses for flower/insect closeups and love them on our Panasonic cameras. For wildlife, I use a Panasonic 100-400 zoom and my wife currently uses a Panasonic 100-300 zoom (first version). They work well for us. I just got a Panasonic 45-200mm zoom and was very pleased with the photos I got on my first outing. I did my homework before spending money and am happy to keep the cameras and lenses we chose.

If you choose to buy cameras and lenses and then sell them in six months, that's your choice even if it makes no sense to me. However, I can't sympathize with your complaints that buying and selling at short intervals is getting too expensive for you. Perhaps you should change your strategy.

For some, cameras and lenses are collectibles that take photos. For others they a tools for capturing an image that seem to collect.

There is nothing wrong with either view, but it's sometimes hard for one to understand the other.

 

[uscrx]

Why? They're two completely different activities. And two completely different form factors, with radically different available focal lengths/field of view. When someone makes a phone with good manual controls, an EVF, & capability to shoot ultrawide to telephoto, I'll be the first in line to buy one. Until then......................

My LG V20 cellphone has 2 lenses regular and wide angle 16mp and 12 mp. It has manual mode where I can manually focus, change iso, and WB. RAW file is 22mb and I can process the raw Pic and text it or upload in a minute. Also records 4K videos and 60p in 1080p.

Moto Z has Hasselblad camera attachment, viewfinder attachment and a projector attachment.

Huawei now incorporates Leica in their cellphones.

 

[Northland]

I can guarantee you your S8 won't last anywhere near 38 hours when downloading photos from the camera over wifi direct and uploading them to the net via cell data. I understand the need when there is no WiFi around, but that is "usually" not the case for me.

Since the G85 can connect directly to a WiFi access point, it would be nice to see that support widened up a bit (public and Xfinity hot spots). The camera already has the smarts to support encrypted, and SMB shares, so it would be a minor tweak to support.

I suppose a valid workaround might be a cheap battery powered wifi router which could bridge the hot spot to the camera, but this really could simply be done in camera.

Not with continuous use but the 3500mah battery on the S8+ can last 58 hours with limited apps running - I know I use it daily and on backpacking expeditions. I'm a telecom consultant and spend way too much time playing with mobile/cellular hardware.

 

[uscrx]

Not with continuous use but the 3500mah battery on the S8+ can last 58 hours with limited apps running - I know I use it daily and on backpacking expeditions. I'm a telecom consultant and spend way too much time playing with mobile/cellular hardware.

This is what saddens me. Samsung did away with replaceable battery after Note 4, which I used until 2 months ago. The last Android flagship with replaceable better is LG V20, now my current device. I have 2 extra batteries I can pop in to get to 100% charge and I'm contemplating buying a 1,000 mah battery. Because I can.

 

[Northland]

This is what saddens me. Samsung did away with replaceable battery after Note 4, which I used until 2 months ago. The last Android flagship with replaceable better is LG V20, now my current device. I have 2 extra batteries I can pop in to get to 100% charge and I'm contemplating buying a 1,000 mah battery. Because I can.

I hear you. I had a Note 3 with an extra battery but rarely used it. I bought the S8+ because it is IP68 which is important to me.
The LG V30 looks amazing -

 

[pondball]

The LG V30 looks amazing -

actually does look amazing, and like the guy in the video says... "hard to say for an apple fan boy!"... ditto!

 

[uscrx]

I hear you. I had a Note 3 with an extra battery but rarely used it. I bought the S8+ because it is IP68 which is important to me.
The LG V30 looks amazing -

Yes I saw that video when researching LG. It's amazing what cellphones can do. I do believe V30 is IP68. Also, the sound system on LG with Quad DAC and headphone jack are awesome.

Took me a few days to learn RAW file manipulation on my LG. And 4K video is amazing.

Don't want to thread jack and make it an IOS vs. Android but Android has come a long way and my screen doesn't have a notch. Oh.. IPhone finally gets an OLED screen..