Wow! Fuji CSC Leak!

stratokaster

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I don't get the drama, really.

Judging by my experience with the X100 and some Fuji compacts, this will produce beautiful images, but the camera will be slow to focus. It will also take its time writing images to the memory card and the video mode will be beyond awful.
 

flash

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Ifthe camera and lenses are good, it'll take a little bit from all the other markets, but really not affect any of them. M9 users are still going to want full frame and those wonderful Leica lenses. M8 owners may consider the Fuji though. M4/3 and NEX owners are still want smaller camera and lenses.

But there is a small group who want a smaller camera than a Canon 7d with AF. And those who think M4/3 is too small to handle well. When Konica released the Hexar they had the same response as Fuji have with the X100. Then Konica released the Hexar RF and it did very well, as even a niche can be a lot of camera sales. Looks like Fuji have just followed the Hexar line in digital form.

I'll probably get one of these, but I won't be selling my M9's any time soon.

Gordon
 

Luke

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I would like to add/amend a list of people to Gordon's list. There are some who want the highest quality camera that is not a DSLR form factor and can't afford (or justify the expense) a Leica. I didn't buy a micro four thirds camera because it is smaller. I actually dislike how small they are for the most part. None of them fit in ANY of my pockets, so I'm not sure what the point is.

I don't go bowling much, but when I do, the ball usually weighs around 14 lbs. And I pick it up and throw it hard for the better part of 2-3 hours and never really tire. I'm getting a little old and feeling some aches and pains some days, but the difference between a camera that is 1 pound and a camera that is 2 pounds doesn't matter a bit to me. I just want a high quality camera that doesn't look like a DSLR.
 

shnitz

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From the looks of it, Fuji isn't aiming towards M43 or NEX, they're gunning for Leica. Slap a couple native lenses and a Leica mount adapter and you pretty much have an M9 killer.

As a Nikon guy, if they got some special sensor in there, I wouldn't mind if they release a follow up to their F-mount S5...Fuji S6 Pro in a D700 chassis would be sick!

I definitely agree with this. It's not meant to be a more portable interchangeable-lens system to compete with SLRs, like m4/3 is. It's meant to be an affordable digital rangefinder, since the only rangefinder now is the M9, and most don't find it affordable. Also, I'm sure that many want features like autofocus. It will probably be a bit faster operation than the X100, but not blazingly fast.

You don't even need a Leica mount adapter. Fuji is a powerhouse when it comes to optics; their medium format cameras are nothing but well received among professionals. As far as the intended use of rangefinders, it has a perfect introductory lineup:
-18mm (24mm equiv.) for wideangle, 24mm is respectably wide, and I assume they'll introduce a wider angle lens later
-35mm (~50mm equiv) as a normal lens
-A zoom lens for convenience, let's just call it an 18-55mm for now.
-A 60mm, which is incredibly perfect for portraits, gives a slight telephoto

Shame it seems like it's gonna be an APSc based camera vs. at least an APSh or full frame. Would have been be nice if it was a reasonably priced M9 competitor :frown:

So Fuji has basically just reissued the X100 as an interchangable lens camera with a tweaked sensor ... a bit of let down especially as they are going with their own new mount which in my opinion makes absolutely no sense ... just to have an aperature ring based lenses.

Pffffff.. another product just confuse the marketplace vs. truly standing out from the crowd.

I guess u43 will be able to stand its ground a while longer. Granted, I'd prefer to the Fuji LX over the Sony NEX7 if I was in that marketplace..

So we now from Nikon with a decent ILC mirrorless system for an entry point, u43s being IMO the best bang for you buck, Fuji x100, NEX7/Fuji LX, Leica M

Of all those.. it still seems to me u43 is still the overall system to get.. if ONLY they'd make a significant announcment about some type of sensor improvement coming down the pipe and a freaking body variant that includes a VF if only to stop all the bad forum posts and begging for some diehard vf shooters.

While a full frame would be fun, it wouldn't be realistic. I'd bet that it would drive the camera to be nearly 2/3 the price of an M9, at which point, most people would just get the M9. Even though Fuji is well known among professionals (and now consumers moreso than ever, thanks to the X10 and X100), they still have to choose their battles wisely. Introducing a more expensive camera in today's market is not a wide choice. With the short register distance of a rangefinder, the costs to tame a fullframe would be exponential compared to the gains. Who will pay $3,000+ for a Fuji rangefinder when a 5D and D700 (and their successors) cost less? They most assuredly want to capture more of the consumer sector than Leica has been able to; they don't have the name recognition.

Look at any other company's foray into the high end to see how that turns out. The Volkswagen Phaeton, for example, was made to compete with Mercedes, BMW, etc. It had the same price. Considering Volkswagen at the time owned Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, and Bugatti and therefore had all of that engineering prowess at their disposal (along with the at-the-time unofficial partnership and rampant idea-sharing with Porsche), the car was most assuredly as well built and well-equipped as its competitors. But, without the prestige or the name recognition, sales fell flat.

They also went with their own mount because this rangefinder will have autofocus and will communicate with the camera in other ways; look at the picture showing all of the electrical contacts on the back of the lens. I don't think that this confuses the market any more than the X100 did. Given the humongous reception that the X100 and X10 are receiving from consumers, I'd say that they're doing well by staying in that end of the market. Give everyone that's loving the X100 the ability to increase the functionality with a family of lenses.

I really think this camera will carve out its own nice little comfortable pocket in the market. I do agree with you that if m4/3 had introduced a proper rangefinder-style body and some solid sensor technology, there would be a lot less squawking from users like me.

I don't get the drama, really.

Judging by my experience with the X100 and some Fuji compacts, this will produce beautiful images, but the camera will be slow to focus. It will also take its time writing images to the memory card and the video mode will be beyond awful.

The Leica M9 has no video, but look at the reception that it's getting; I don't think Leica has any wants with regards to sales. This camera will be to the Leica M9 as the new Mustang is to a 1967 one; still a beast capable of amazing performance, but taking advantage of today's technology.
 

meyerweb

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The Leica M9 has no video, but look at the reception that it's getting; I don't think Leica has any wants with regards to sales. This camera will be to the Leica M9 as the new Mustang is to a 1967 one; still a beast capable of amazing performance, but taking advantage of today's technology.

The M9 has no problems with respect to sales because it's a niche camera, made and intended to be sold in small numbers. If you can convince people to pay Leica prices, you can make money on low volume sales. But you can't make money on low volume sales at Panasonic prices.

Where this will be priced is anyone's guess at this point. In fact, virtually everything about this camera is anyone's guess, since all we have are some unsupported rumors and blurry pictures, and a whole lot of assumptions by people who don't actually know anything.
 

shnitz

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So, another "system" camera with an inadequate range of lenses. Color me less than impressed.

They're going to have the 24mm, 50mm, and 90mm equivalent lenses out immediately, while we had to wait how many years? Olympus does know what photography is, right? How did it take this much trial and error between Olympus and Panasonic for them to realize what it takes to solidify a system; look how quickly people are making a 12/25/45mm or 12/20/45mm kit their trifecta of lenses. Plus, APS from a company that knows photography, that breathes photography. Everything Fuji has made for the enthusiast market has developed a cult following, from their Nikon-based SLRs to their new X100 and X10.

This will be what the Nikon 1 haters wanted that system to be; now let's see if they'll pay up and put their money where their mouth is. Even at the unanimously-agreed overinflated prices that the Nikon 1 system currently is, it's probably about half of what this will cost.
 

shnitz

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The M9 has no problems with respect to sales because it's a niche camera, made and intended to be sold in small numbers. If you can convince people to pay Leica prices, you can make money on low volume sales. But you can't make money on low volume sales at Panasonic prices.

Where this will be priced is anyone's guess at this point. In fact, virtually everything about this camera is anyone's guess, since all we have are some unsupported rumors and blurry pictures, and a whole lot of assumptions by people who don't actually know anything.

And the Fuji X100? That's not a niche camera?
 

Linh

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So, another "system" camera with an inadequate range of lenses. Color me less than impressed.

while this doesn't look like it's for me... i'm not sure how you expect them to just roll out with a full set of lenses. Sure, we'll complain about it, but it's a brand spanking new system.
 

994

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They're going to have the 24mm, 50mm, and 90mm equivalent lenses out immediately, while we had to wait how many years? Olympus does know what photography is, right? How did it take this much trial and error between Olympus and Panasonic for them to realize what it takes to solidify a system; look how quickly people are making a 12/25/45mm or 12/20/45mm kit their trifecta of lenses. Plus, APS from a company that knows photography, that breathes photography. Everything Fuji has made for the enthusiast market has developed a cult following, from their Nikon-based SLRs to their new X100 and X10.

This will be what the Nikon 1 haters wanted that system to be; now let's see if they'll pay up and put their money where their mouth is. Even at the unanimously-agreed overinflated prices that the Nikon 1 system currently is, it's probably about half of what this will cost.

I have never understood why someone hangs around a specific brand forum to do nothing but gripe about the makers of the gear.
 

flash

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STOP THE THREAD!

Did you just say M9s? As in more than one?

:2thumbs:

Picked up my second body two weeks ago. It was an impulse buy...

Backups are mandatory when you are paid to shoot. No one seems to blink if someone has two 1 series Canons or two Nikon D3x bodies and both of these are actually more expensive than the M9.

But yes it does make me more cool:biggrin: and last Saturday I made some poor kid have his drink come out his nose when he realized I had two M9's.

Gordon
 
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They're going to have the 24mm, 50mm, and 90mm equivalent lenses out immediately, while we had to wait how many years? Olympus does know what photography is, right? How did it take this much trial and error between Olympus and Panasonic for them to realize what it takes to solidify a system; look how quickly people are making a 12/25/45mm or 12/20/45mm kit their trifecta of lenses. Plus, APS from a company that knows photography, that breathes photography. Everything Fuji has made for the enthusiast market has developed a cult following, from their Nikon-based SLRs to their new X100 and X10.

This will be what the Nikon 1 haters wanted that system to be; now let's see if they'll pay up and put their money where their mouth is. Even at the unanimously-agreed overinflated prices that the Nikon 1 system currently is, it's probably about half of what this will cost.

Let's see now. Brand new, unproven camera format NOT specifically aimed at any particular professional market, that instead competes against the entry to mid-level end of the DSLR market whose bread-and-butter lenses are zooms, not primes. Despite that, you can now say that m4/3 is the only consumer digital (i.e. cropped sensor) camera format that offers such a large range of dedicated prime lenses, whereas even Nikon and Canon have hardly been forthcoming with prime lenses designed for the APS-C sensor. Canon, for example, have produced one dedicated EFS prime lens being the 60mm Macro. It probably doesn't make economic sense for them to replicate every prime focal length for APS-C where there are existing full-frame lenses that can be used to approximate them, but you are still left with lenses bigger than they need to be.

I'd also probably add that there are a lot of photographers who've never even used a 24, 50, or 90mm prime lens.
 

Wes7

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I don't really get a lot of the complaints here. I'm seeing a lot of "Yawn, another me-too product" responses. Why? Because the NEX-7 already exists? Would everybody be saying that if Olympus introduced the exact same camera Fuji has here tomorrow for M 4/3? ALL cameras are at least a little "me too". To me, this camera has a lot of nice features that aren't currently on the market:

-classic styling on a full-featured body with lots of manual controls
-A system that seems targeted, from day one, towards prosumers and hobbyists
-fast lenses from day one

Sure, other systems offer some of the same features, but none offer them all together. I'll be watching this system for sure. Like others have said, I don't care about a slightly larger body- my M43 kits gets carried in a bag anyways. I do care about body features, style, and fast, sharp prime lenses. I think it is very significant that this is the first CSC truly targeted at enthusiasts.

If they integrate good focus assist, like peaking, this could be a great entry in the growing number of cameras people use as M9 replacements, as well. I think it has potential to compete very well when compared with the M8, NEX-7 (which seems to have color shift issues at wide angle), and the Ricoh A12 module.

I think the real fight is going to be between this and the proposed Leica CSC, which will supposedly be announced this month, rather than the NEX or M43 systems, which split their resources between upgraders and enthusiasts. Now THAT will be interesting.
 
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I don't really get a lot of the complaints here. I'm seeing a lot of "Yawn, another me-too product" responses. Why? Because the NEX-7 already exists? Would everybody be saying that if Olympus introduced the exact same camera Fuji has here tomorrow for M 4/3? ALL cameras are at least a little "me too". To me, this camera has a lot of nice features that aren't currently on the market:

Since this a Micro Four Thirds forum, I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see some indifference here.
 

soundimageplus

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Picked up my second body two weeks ago. It was an impulse buy...
Backups are mandatory when you are paid to shoot. No one seems to blink if someone has two 1 series Canons or two Nikon D3x bodies and both of these are actually more expensive than the M9.

Things must be going well!! I did work with an M9 and an M8 for a while, but I'm not sure I could have coped with hanging that much round my neck, particularly when the 1 year passport ran out! I have been known to drop them!

I have since become an ex-Leica user and my grip on my cameras has relaxed somewhat!
 

Armanius

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Things must be going well!! I did work with an M9 and an M8 for a while, but I'm not sure I could have coped with hanging that much round my neck, particularly when the 1 year passport ran out! I have been known to drop them!

I have since become an ex-Leica user and my grip on my cameras has relaxed somewhat!

I took out insurance on my M9. $50/year. Otherwise, I'd be paranoid about using it.
 

flash

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Things must be going well!! I did work with an M9 and an M8 for a while, but I'm not sure I could have coped with hanging that much round my neck, particularly when the 1 year passport ran out! I have been known to drop them!

I have since become an ex-Leica user and my grip on my cameras has relaxed somewhat!

Well, is a relative term. I'd always planned two bodies and I've now had enough time to know I'll be sticking with the system. My dealer offered me a great price so I went for it.

I've never been precious with my gear. They're just tools and they're insured. My car cost more and I drive that every day. With two bodies I actually have less worries about something going wrong as I do now have a backup. I was nervous when I only had one.

Gordon
 

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