Would anyone else like it a little Bigger?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by RDM, Feb 6, 2014.

  1. RDM

    RDM Mu-43 All-Pro

    I was thinking. If Sony can release a NEX body with bigger sensor why cant there be a µ4/3 body with a bigger sensory also?
    Well 1st off I do realize that the small mount diameter is a Limiting factor, but why not an APS-C, or a 22mm square sensor that can be cropped or be used in full sensor mode? Would be cool to see the full image circle of the µ4/3 lenses.

    I know it would never happen. But its nice to dream.. And I felt like voicing an idea tonight .. Been thinking about the 22mm square sensor ever since the introduction of the GH-1.

    Edit : Feb. 07, 2014
    Just to remind everyone that, when you vote in the pole, you can pick more than one of the choices.
  2. nickthetasmaniac

    nickthetasmaniac Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 11, 2011
    A square sensor would realistically have to be oversized. If it was a 'native' square (ie. the corners of the square go to the corners of the image circle), then 4:3, 3:2, 16:9 etc. will necessarily be crops of that square, meaning that they'll be smaller that the current 4:3 sensor.

    An oversized sensor that allows native 1:1 and 4:3 is going to be much larger than the current sensor (and much larger than the old GH1/2 oversized sensors), which means much more expensive (due to the nature of silicon chip manufacturing) and of absolutely no use to anything but the 5% of photos that use square format.

    If you're talking about a larger sensor in the style of the A7(r), then you'll run straight into the problem Sony has: New Lens System.

    So no, it's not high on my wish-list :smile:

    **I voted for the multi-aspect, in the style of my old GH2**
  3. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    Multi-aspect, which means real options for equal megapixel alternate aspect ratios. Sony's already doing great FF stuff, I want MFT to complement that, and a smaller crop sensor with high quality is what allows system size to remain compact.
  4. hkpzee

    hkpzee Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 5, 2011
    Hong Kong
    As Nick has said, a larger sensor like that of the A7 will require new lenses to take full advantage of the sensor, and I currently have no intention of adding more expensive lenses to my collection of m4/3 and 4/3 lenses. If I ever felt the need for a larger sensor mirrorless camera, I might as well get the Sony, since I will need to get new lenses for it anyway... So my vote went to a true multi-aspect sensor like the one in the GH2 as well!
  5. Dewi

    Dewi Mu-43 Regular

    Jan 11, 2014
    Lancashire, England
    If putting in a larger sensor meant the camera / lenses getting any larger as they surely must do then no, it was the small size of M43 that appealed to me in the first place. If I'd wanted a smalll camera with a large sensor then I'd have bought a Sony - but I've never liked Sony cameras anyway so it's purely academic. It would have to have been maybe a Samsung instead :smile: As things stand now, if I need a larger sensor camera for anything in particular I'll use my DSLR.

    Micro 4 Thirds is what it is and I for one love it "warts an' all", if you don't like it or find too many shortcomings with it then buy something else - simple
  6. Reflector

    Reflector Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 31, 2013
    I don't think I'd take a larger sensor format over what we have right now. If they keep improving the sensors then I will enjoy my lenses having their image circles compressed and pick up some m43 lenses in the future. I think I'd take the GH2's multi-aspect sensor size instead, given its a slightly oversized m43 sensor.

    Heck, Fuji's going to answer people's urges for "m43s but APS-C" with the X-T1 option if you like the GH3 and OMD line.
  7. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    I voted for a true multi-aspect, and I'll echo what everyone else is saying about larger or square. Off topic, but what I'd like to see is a fixed lens m4/3s option (or two). How small can an m4/3s camera be made with a fixed 28 or 35mm lens?
  8. laser8

    laser8 Mu-43 Veteran

    Jan 29, 2013
    Mare nostrum, Istria
    I'd love the multi aspect sensor to make a comeback. It was one of the outstanding features of my LX5. As for bigger, I really do not care. I find m43 an extremely good combination (for me) of image quality and DOF. Heck, what's the use of a 1.4 on a bigger sensor if sometimes I have to stop down from that on a 43 sensor already? Let's not even talk about macro! ISO 100 or 80 though, that makes me drool...

    BTW a similar idea is being discussed in this blogger's post:

  9. BigTom

    BigTom Mu-43 Regular

    Sep 23, 2011
    I really liked the multi-aspect sensor on the GH2, particularly for squeezing a little extra width into images with the 9-18 by using 16:9. So bringing those back would be nice.

    And then I want Sigma to join m43 and bring their foveon sensor :)
  10. snkenai

    snkenai Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Sep 5, 2010
    When you change the sensor size, it's no longer 4/3s by definition. It was designed that way. Wishing won't change what it is or it's purpose. This has been discussed many times before. :horse:
    • Like Like x 2
  11. BigTom

    BigTom Mu-43 Regular

    Sep 23, 2011
    So the GH1 and GH2 weren't MFT then? Guess I got lucky that they just happened to work with the rest of my MFT kit then...

    The only thing limiting the physical size of the sensor is the image circle of the available lenses, and I suppose cost to an extent. And within the image circle of the lenses there is some scope for some minor tweaking of sensor dimensions, as demonstrated by the multiaspect sensors in the GH1 and GH2 which I'm guessing weren't physically 4:3.
  12. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    I voted for multi-aspect.

    I would like an oversized square sensor that picks up the full image circle.

    The circular image is saved (with black space on the outside auto-deleted to save on file size).

    Any aspect ratio that fits in the image circle can be adopted in post processing. Or, if desired, chosen in-camera, using a dial for quick and infinite aspect variation from a column to a square to a 'beam'.

    Lenses are no bigger, bodies are little to no bigger -- with the possible exception of the Panasonic GM-1 :)

    The shooter never again needs to rotate the camera into portrait position. Great for manual handling, and great for tripod users.
  13. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    Consider the GM-1 with the Oly 15mm.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. fredlong

    fredlong Just this guy...

    Apr 18, 2011
    Massachusetts USA
    The multiaspect sensors in those cameras kept the same diagonal for the different crops (except for square) so the amount of the image circle used never changed.

    The 4/3 refers to adding the length and height of image area. It adds up to 4/3". This type of measure goes back to the old vidicon tubes used in video recording.

    WIth these things in mind the GH1 and 2 sensors were 4/3.

    Getting back to the OP. there are m4/3 sized bodies with bigger sensors. Fuji, Samsung and Sony all make APS sized examples. Sony also makes a35mm frame example. You can't have a m4/3 body without a 4/3 sensor, it would be something else.

    I wouldn't expect Panasonic or Olympus to get into another format any time soon, but there are small body/ larger sensor options available.

    • Like Like x 2
  15. BigTom

    BigTom Mu-43 Regular

    Sep 23, 2011
    Now I look silly :p

    Thanks for the explanation Fred; sarcasm retracted!
  16. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    u43 is what it is. Both bodies and lenses are designed around a complete system spec. If you put in a bigger sensor, you'd need different lenses with larger image circles etc. - basically, you'd no longer have u43. If a bigger sensor is what you need, go buy a Fuji or an A7 or whatever!!

    I live u43 for what it is, not what it isn't!
  17. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    There is always that sort of option for sure, and that particular one is sure to be tempting. For me, for a while, it was the GF1 + 20/1.7.

    It just seems like there is a nice pick up in size and performance if interchangeability is sacrificed.
  18. Ulfric M Douglas

    Ulfric M Douglas Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 6, 2010
    The O.P. wants a bigger sensor behind m4/3rds lenses, I don't see this being much better for anything, but ...
    you can have a bigger sensor behind any manual lens you want, right now!
    Sony A7.
    I think the colours are better than the old NEXs too.
  19. Anyone who has used sensor formats larger than 4/3 and who isn't prone to hyperbole will tell you that practically there isn't a whole lot to be gained by going larger, I'm not even sure whether there is room within the m4/3 mount for an APS-C sensor given the proximity of the lens contacts to the bottom of the sensor, and the use of space is further compounded by Olympus having their sensors floating around on electromagnets.

    I do quite like the multi-aspect sensor in my GH1 but can't say that I find it a massive loss to not have it in later bodies. Switching to 3:2 or 16:9 is still a crop but with some extra pixels gained in width as recompense. It was a unique selling point though and certainly deals effectively with any criticism of the 4:3 aspect ratio of Micro 4/3.
  20. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    So my suggestion is wrong?

    No advantages in my suggestion then?

    No advantages in my suggestion then? :smile: