Will They Build a Wider Prime?

Discussion in 'Native Lenses' started by tjdean01, Apr 25, 2013.

  1. tjdean01

    tjdean01 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Feb 20, 2013
    The Olympus 12mm 2.0 is well and good, and yes, it is the best lens at that focal distance, but IMHO, for the $800 price tag I think I might be willing to make do with the 14mm 2.5, or even the 14-42mm kit lens (and make do with the 20mm 1.7 in low-light).

    The 7-14mm is also well and good. It's very sharp and fills its niche well. However, for me, once I'm wide, I'm wide. I don't need zoom. I'm totally fine cropping down to 8 MP, for example. Plus f/4 is slow vs the 12mm. Finally, the lens is very large and $900.

    Wouldn't it be nice they (preferably Oly) were to make, say, an 8mm f/2.2 prime in a smaller form factor? For that, if sharp, I'd drop the $800!
  2. tradesmith45

    tradesmith45 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 13, 2012
    I'm with you on this & this is an oft discussed view.

    I own both the 9-18 & 12. If there was a sharp fast prime (anything 8 to 10mm would make me happy), I'd sell both my current WA lenses. But it would have to be sharp wide open ( at least f2.8) as well as stopped down.

    I love the 12 for night photos @ f2. The 9-18 has lousy edge IQ wide open @9mm.
  3. tradesmith45

    tradesmith45 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 13, 2012
    Unfortunately, Olympis never had a UWA prime for 43. You have to go back to film days to find something like that.

    And for DSLRs today, there are no APS-C lenses shorter than14mm (21 for FF). Only FF lenses offer UWA primes.

    So seems unlikely there is enough market for these.
  4. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    First off, I highly doubt anyone on this forum has insight into the lens roadmaps of any of the manufacturers, and if they do they're discreet enough not to share them here. So any response you get here is going to be 99% speculation (perhaps leavened with a bit of wisdom from some).

    That said, I suspect that tradesmith45's assumption that the market for such a lens would be minuscule is likely correct. Although I would also love to see something like what you describe (8-10mm f/2.5-3.2 rectilinear prime), I think it's probably pretty far down the lists of those who make (and must try to sell) lenses for this system. This is a decidedly niche product for which you will likely have to go to "full frame" to get in the near future (if ever). :frown:
  5. cmpatti

    cmpatti Mu-43 Veteran

    May 8, 2011
    Berkeley, CA
    After an optically superb, fast-ish mid-range zoom, a reasonably compact, high-IQ superwide prime is on the top of my lens wishlist. I wouldn't care if it isn't especially fast.
  6. speedandstyle

    speedandstyle Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    SamYang is suppose to be coming out with a 10mm for APS DSLRs soon, it could be adapted. It is also possible they will make a non-fisheye wide for m4/3. Of coarse they are manual focus only but wides are easy to focus.
  7. littleMT

    littleMT Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 8, 2012
    Lucille Sanchez
    I am sure the 12mm prime is a solid lens.... better build...

    but the 14mm is magical to me, it has mojo, and it is cheap...

    when I can get shots like this with the 14mm, who needs the 12mm considering its cost.




    I would put the 14mm f/2.5 up against any prime made for m4/3rds, it is my opinion that the MUST HAVE 14mm is amongst the best lens ever made for m 4/3rds...

    it is a no-brainer as cheap as it is, especially if you want to do car shots.

    Since the 14mm is here, I don't need the 12mm, however, I too would jump on a 8mm or 10mm prime........

    I love getting wide, and getting freaky...
  8. tjdean01

    tjdean01 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Feb 20, 2013
    Samyang would be the perfect maker because, if the fisheye is any indication, it will be sharp and cheap. I could live with the f/3.5 and manual focus. I'd pre-order now! :) 
  9. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    Honestly, I doubt an ultrawide prime at a low price point will be forthcoming any time soon. It's a very niche product in the grand scheme of things - F4 may be 'slow', but you generally want depth of field in your ultrawide shots, and the majority of my 7-14 shots are stopped down. Zooms are relatively popular in this range (see Nikon and Canon, and the 7-14 is arguably one of the best ultrawides available in any interchangeable lens system).

    But let's get one thing straight: the 7-14 is not 'very large'. It balances perfectly on an E-M5 and is smaller and lighter.

    Zeiss and Rokinon make MF ultrawide primes, but even though one is cheap (Rokinon/Samyang), it's not hugely popular. I'd honestly rather see a tilt-shift for MFT than an ultrawide prime. Would return some depth of field control, add more selective focus, and functionally extend the sensor size by allowing seamless stitching. But that really is a super-niche product :) 
  10. I agree with Mattia. Highly doubt it. A rectilinear ulta wide angle lens is difficult to design and manufacture plus only appeal to a few... so it will be expensive. Now you want to make it with a fast aperture... even more expensive. Most examples of these primes on other systems are at a max aperture of 5.6. As already mentioned a fast aperture at these lengths is often not really a must.

    On full frame, 24mm is one of my favorite focal lengths because its about as wide as you can go before the distortion becomes obvious and often distracting to the viewer.
  11. Petrochemist

    Petrochemist Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Mar 21, 2013
    N Essex, UK
    I have to disagree here!
    I have a 10-17 fisheye for my Pentax APS-C DSLR, and Sigma do a 10-20 UWA rectilinear for it too.
    If your just refering to primes I've also seen a 8mm (I think it was Samyang).

    Distortion free UWA lenses are difficult to acheive for smaller sensors - there is certainly plenty of interest but the prices limit sales.
  12. Cruzan80

    Cruzan80 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    Denver, Co
    Sean Rastsmith
    I believe he is referring to UWA primes, that are not fisheye. The 8mm Samyang is a fisheye, similar to the 7.5 we have for the system right now.
  13. Just Jim

    Just Jim Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Oct 20, 2011
    a rectilinear prime would be cheap to make. Really, it could be kickstarted and adapted to the whole mirrorless market. Let'sface it, it doesn't need to be fast, it doesn't need autofocus, just have make it a set f 5.6 or f8 with 2 groups, 4 lenses. Most work done with an ultra wide would probably need a tripod anyway...

    Then again, maybe the short FL is just a problem on these sensors like 7-14. Which could make it expensive.
  14. RichDesmond

    RichDesmond Mu-43 Top Veteran Subscribing Member

    Nov 18, 2011
    The short register distance on ML cameras makes the UWA lenses easier to design and manufacture, compared to SLR cameras. At least that's my understanding. A smaller sensor is always going to be easier than a large one.

    I'd love to have an 8-9mm prime also, and f4 would be fine. In some ways even preferable to an f2.8 lens as it would be smaller and cheaper. But the market is probably too small for it to be worthwhile.
  15. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    That same Samyang 8mm is also available directly for our system, besides the Lumix 7.5mm.
  16. Just Jim

    Just Jim Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Oct 20, 2011
    There appear to be some theories on the good old internet, that 7-14mm blobs are caused by light hitting the rear cell reflecting off the sensor. It makes some sense in common thinking, but I don't know for sure. My perspective is if someone made a cheap lens ala kickstarter, where it's basically the best quality glass the project could afford and slap it in a PVC tube. A designated landscape lens is that ultra wide, the users are going to have it on a some kind of tripod most of the time to keep perspective, so make it slow. Or make some waterhouse stops. Maybe some should bring it up to the Pinwide/travelwide guys after their P&S 4X5 is done.
  17. tradesmith45

    tradesmith45 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 13, 2012
    Well just after I shot my big mouth off on this topic, I found the Fuji announcement about their new 14mm F2.8 prime - wow! Almost enough to get me to buy an X-1 Pro.

    Maybe the market interest being created by the emergence of mirrorless cameras is going to cause a surge in lots of new glass too like UWA & Utele primes.

    These are capabilities that will be a long time coming from smart phones.
  18. jap

    jap Mu-43 Regular

    Nov 27, 2012
    As others have indicated, 12mm is probably the lower end of the popular lenses. To go lower would enter professional/serious amateur territory where sales would be lower and prices necessarily higher due to economies of scale. I suspect Oly ZD will hold off of high end ultra wide primes until (or at least close to the time) they release their pro body that will unify the 4:3 and µ4:3 lens lines.

    Personally, I would love to see a 10/2 and a 7/3.5 (or even a 7/2.8!) rectilinear lenses. I have never been crazy about wide angle zooms since I love to move in close with wide angle primes. Employed in such a manner, one can actually treat a WA prime as a near macro lens. No zoom will ever focus as close as a similar quality prime, and, consequently, zooms are of limited utility for me at the wide end of things.
  19. ranxoren

    ranxoren Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Apr 22, 2013
    Toronto, ON
    The SamYang 7.5mm Fisheye for M4/3 is quite sharp and can be easily defished.
    Here is a picture of my dog I took with it on my E-M5 and defished using Lightroom 4:


    Loving the lens!
  20. mattia

    mattia Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 3, 2012
    The Netherlands
    'near macro' seems a bit of an excessive description for an ultrawide. Fisheyes you can get in really, really close, but the minimum focus distance on both ultrawide zooms in MFT is 25 centimeters. Extactly the same as for the Canon EF 14/2.8 mark II, and slighly longer than for the Zeiss 21/2.8 or the Canon 14/2.8 mark II (22 and 20 cm). Magnification on all is so-so.

    What ultrawide primes do you use that focus significantly closer?
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