Will I have to leave u43?

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by pdk42, Jan 17, 2016.

  1. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    I'm getting worried that my love affair with u43 is heading for a crash. The reason? - it's the flippy screen and the prospect that all u43 cameras are going that way. With the Pen-F and the E-M5ii using them it seems highly likely that the E-M1ii will go the same way. And of course, the Panasonic cameras follow the same path.

    Although I use the EVF a lot, I also use the screen flipped out so that I can shoot from the waist. I'm in NYC at the moment on business but took a few hours out yesterday to do some photography and I probably took 60% of the shots from the waist with the screen flipped out. Going back to the hotel I popped into Best Buy and played with the E-M5ii. Using the flip-out screen to shoot from the waist is very, very clumsy and I really don't think I want to use a camera that behaves that way.

    "But your E-M1 still works" I hear you say - yes, but I'm really expecting the E-M1ii to step up the game in sensor IQ - from both a newer sensor and a hand-holdable Hi-Res mode. I can't see the E-M1 and the current 16Mp sensors being truly competitive for much longer. In fact, shooting in the NY Public Library yesterday with a colleague and his D810, I was struggling with DR and noise to get even near the quality of his shots. I know that FF is bound to be better, but I think that u43 needs to progress for it to remain an enthusiast's camera - and if that means flippy screens only, then I think I'll be out....

    Am I being extreme?
     
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  2. Robstar1963

    Robstar1963 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    901
    Jun 10, 2011
    Isle of Wight England UK
    Robert (Rob)
    Hi pdk42
    The thing is (without knowing the answer myself) what alternatives are actually out there with exactly or very near your requirements ?
    What other systems are available with tilting screens rather than either fixed, or ' flippy outy'
    If there are no alternatives out there which don't also fit your other requirements which for example have equivalent or better IQ attributes, are suitable for you in terms of size and portability (including that of the lenses) and which have a good range of quality high value lenses and accessories then leaving the system might be costly and frustrating
    I have noticed that quite a few members on this forum have left the system over the time that I have been here and many seem to drift back again months, years or even weeks later
    There does seem to be something in the compromise of features and size that keeps many of us here and that keeps bringing people back !
    I for one have more than once contemplated buying into a second system and have on several occasions bought a DSLR for example only to find that it never gets used and is sold on again
    Luckily I have always considered a second system rather than a full switch which I think perhaps is the way to go in situations like this
    It is much easier to compare another system to the one you previously used if you still have the old one for direct comparison and by doing so you don't lose out as a result of selling up twice if you've made the 'wrong' decision
    Obviously this would be budget dependant and not always possible
    Unfortunately all pieces of equipment are compromises not least of all because manufacturers don't want to give you all their potential 'goodies' all at once on any given product as they want and need to save something for the next version to entice new users and upgraders
    My recent EM5 ii was very good for me in general but it had to go because the rear dial (may have been a poor example) had little resistance to accidental knocking (set to exposure comp) so I can appreciate how annoying one feature can be if it doesn't suit.
    It seems that you cannot get past this issue because of the way you enjoy taking photos and moving to another system might be the only way to settle this for you ?
    Either way it would be good to keep you here even if only to let us know how it goes and how another system compares
    Regards
    Rob
     
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  3. ApGfoo

    ApGfoo Mu-43 Regular

    158
    Dec 10, 2012
    Bay Area
    You say your love will crash because of the flip out LCD when it's apparent that the real reason is in your third paragraph about dynamic range and noise. It will never compete with full frame in that regard.
     
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  4. JoFT

    JoFT Mu-43 Veteran

    360
    Nov 11, 2014
    Stuttgart
    Johannes
    Using Fullformat (Canon) As well As m43: tiltyflippy screens are an asset, especially on m43. The good thing: you do Not need it if You don Not want to use it.

    The other topic is more serious and The reason why I have both.
     
  5. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    I shoot with both M43 and FF DSLRs. FF DSLRs definitely have better image quality and are great for composed shots, sports action and event photography, but for street, travel and discreet-style shooting, M43 wins hands down. I just went street shooting with my D600 yesterday, and I felt like I was trying to race a go-cart track with a Nissan GT-R! Sometimes, the bigger, better tool isn't necessarily the best for a given scenario! :wink:
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
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  6. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    Thanks all. Surveying the market, both Fuji and Sony offer tilt screens - but of course there's no guarantee they'll continue to do it.
    As regards my real motivations - flippy screen vs DR/noise... I came from Canon FF so I'm very aware of the IQ differences. Most of the time u43 IQ works for me but I'm fully expecting IQ to improve over time. I really really don't want to change systems but I feel very strongly about the flippy screen so if the E-M1ii comes with improved IQ but I'm locked out of it due to the screen... well, I guess I'll need to look at my options.

    I may pick up a cheap Fuji and see how I get on with it.
     
  7. budeny

    budeny Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 4, 2014
    Boulder, CO
    I think you're overreacting to your first world problem.. ;)
    Handling camera in store for couple minutes is different than actually living with it and I believe you can adopt to use flip screen or not flip it at all.
    Remember using those FF bodies with only fixed screens or film cameras without any screen?
     
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  8. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    Aye - the voice of logic and reason!
     
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  9. davidzvi

    davidzvi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 12, 2012
    Outside Boston MA
    David
    Try just not using the tilt screen, leave it in place. See how that goes. It's actually what I've been doing since getting my E-M5 mkII.
     
  10. CWRailman

    CWRailman Mu-43 Top Veteran

    564
    Jun 2, 2015
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Denny
    YES!! Where is it said that you must upgrade to a new model? Why not use the same camera for two or three or five or even ten years? There is no expiration date on a camera so if it does what you need to have done it will continue doing so for many years. I am amazed by how many people think they have to get the newest models when they come out then all they do is use them to take pictures of their cats. Heck continue using your old camera and use the money you save to take a few trips ( motorcycles are my favorite form of transportation) then you can post photo's of all the great places you have been to and leave taking pictures of cats to those who waste money on frequent unnecessary equipment upgrades.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
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  11. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    Yupper!

    Flippy Screen – Really! Maybe the next E-M1 will or will not go that way. But why sweat the load when you really have nothing conclusive to base that off of. And that swivel screen really made your photographs that much better, enough to decide to buy a camera based solely because of that?

    Let’s see –

    The OM-D E-M1 was released September 2013, 1 ½ years after the D800 and 8 months before the D810. The D800 was released February 2012 and the D810 released 2 years 4 months later with virtually the same DR, color depth, and ISO capabilities.

    And it’s only now that the E-M1 can’t compete? What am I not getting?

    Without a doubt the Nikon D800 series is the best camera I have ever owned with some of the best lenses ever made. Yet it sits in storage almost all the time. And here I was pondering when I should sell all of my Nikon gear this year.
     
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  12. bigboysdad

    bigboysdad Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 25, 2013
    Sydney/ London
    @pdk42@pdk42 Looking at your previous posts, it seems to me that you really need to go out and buy your Sony A7R. No swivel screen and loads of dynamic range which is just what you want right? Plus, no more feeling as if you're being left behind with your camera system of choice. Just do it. You only live once, right?
     
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  13. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    I still find it hard to believe that someone would leave an entire system, sell off all of their camera bodies, lenses, and accessories, all over how the screen flips out.

    I left the NEX system because the lens selection for their APS-C cameras wasn't there. People leave the Fuji system because the AF speed isn't as good as their competitors. People may leave the Samsung NX system over the uncertainty of the system's viability moving forward. People leave DSLR's because of the size and weight.

    I honestly can't recall ever coming across a thread where someone left a system because of the way the screen would flip.


    I do have a question for the people who live and die by the tilt-only screen. I've heard people claim that they like shooting with a flip screen from the waist because of the speed it offers, right? If that's the case, you certainly can't be composing your shots very well, can you?

    I mean, I spend SECONDS, sometimes up to 30 of them, composing my images to make sure I am getting the shot that I want. For me, the extra 0.75 seconds it takes me flip out my articulating screen is inconsequential. But everyone I hear talking about speed, how do you do it? Do you just walk along, and see this amazing shot forming, and you quickly whip the tilt-only screen out and just start firing away? Certainly for street shooting, if the extra time it takes to operate a fully articulating screen over a tilt-only screen is enough to make or break the shot, surely there can't be any time bother composing and framing the shot, right?
     
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  14. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer


    I always wear a top hat and a 3 piece suit when I take photographs and I make sure to check focus with my monocle.
     
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  15. ijm5012

    ijm5012 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 2, 2013
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Ian
    @tkbslc@tkbslc, you always seem to come up with these snarky responses, without ever actually addressing the question. While there was an undertone of sarcasm in my post, I was being serious.

    If taking an extra 0.5s to flip out the articulating LCD over the tilt-only LCD is a deal breaker, how do you manage to take time to compose the shot? Surely it takes more the 0.5s to compose, no?

    Is there a lot of straightening and cropping involved to get the desired shot?
     
  16. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I feel it is my duty to give you snark when you try to act like you are better than the rest of us. And you are preaching, not asking.
     
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  17. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    It's nothing to do with speed - it's about ease of handling, ease of carrying, effective size (twice the width), conspicuity, fragility.
     
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  18. wjiang

    wjiang Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I typically have an approximate composition visualised already and adjust for an appropriate subject. I admit minor straightening and cropping is usually required afterwards if the scene is very busy with bits at the edges.

    My issue is not with fold out speed as such. I tend to leave the screen flipped out, cradle the camera base with my left hand and use my left thumb to do touch shutter activation. You simply can't shoot this way with a touch screen that's loose out the side, it sticks out too far and isn't stable to hold, and pressing the touch screen out the side would easily wobble the whole rig.

    Why do I use touch shutter? Focus and recompose is too slow and manual focus point adjust using buttons is also too slow. With a deep DoF it probably wouldn't matter but even at f/2.8 you need to be extremely spot on. YMMV, if you don't shoot in this way I don't think it matters either way. Often I find a portrait tilt would be handy, but you win some, you lose some.
     
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  19. Robstar1963

    Robstar1963 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    901
    Jun 10, 2011
    Isle of Wight England UK
    Robert (Rob)
    I completely understand your reasoning and would not want yo question that or suggest that this being a deal breaker for you is over the top
    I can see that for street shooting tilting screens are far better and I don't think it is fair to say that you are over reacting to something that is very important to you
    I just wonder whether you will find another system which will be any better overall for your purposes when taking everything into consideration

    I would hope that Olympus listens to the users like you who are very pro tilting screens so that they can keep at least one model in production with this feature - especially as their current OMD business has thrived in no small part as a result of the success of this ( tilting screen) design and users who have perhaps bought into the system at least partly because of this feature
    Regards
    Rob
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
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  20. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    I can understand why someone might want to try FF and the Sony systems are very attractive. Changing systems can be fun and expensive.:biggrin:
     
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