Why not use USB-C ??

[ralf-11]

I don't understand why the m43 manfs. don't switch to USB-C - it is smaller, faster and superior in general.

 

[tkbslc]

They saved 12 cents on the port and 42 cents on the controller. If you times that by a million units, the CEO of Olympus can get a nice Christmas bonus.

 

[skellington]

The controller is probably integral to the CPU chip. Replacing it would require a revision of the CPU chip, and they probably don't have enough other changes to justify the effort of recertifying it, etc.

 

[DanS]

Users don't need the speed, as even the highest end SD card can't touch what USB 3.0 is capable of.

Its also more expensive, in some cases substantially more expensive.

1. Usb 3.0 can only carry 4.5W of power, Type C can do 100W
2. Type C can do bidirectional power, older standards only allowed for host to peripheral transfer

The above also has knock-on effects on other parts of the devise that also increase cost.

 

[Aristophanes]

The controller is probably integral to the CPU chip. Replacing it would require a revision of the CPU chip, and they probably don't have enough other changes to justify the effort of recertifying it, etc.

Nope. TruePic VIII on the EM1.2 and EM1X are USB-C ready.

The omission is about saving pennies on sunk cost older tech rather than future proofing.

 

[DanS]

Nope. TruePic VIII on the EM1.2 and EM1X are USB-C ready.

The omission is about saving pennies on sunk cost older tech rather than future proofing.

Future proofing is just something that makes consumers feel good, it often ends up being completely pointless.

 

[gwydionjhr]

Future proofing is just something that makes consumers feel good, it often ends up being completely pointless.

We can talk in 5 years time when ALL of your other devices use a single USB-C cable, except that one frickin' camera you have to keep a Micro USB cable around for. I'm pretty much there already.

 

[tkbslc]

Future proofing is just something that makes consumers feel good, it often ends up being completely pointless.

making the consumers feel good is completely pointless?

 

[Knowbody42]

The controller is probably integral to the CPU chip. Replacing it would require a revision of the CPU chip, and they probably don't have enough other changes to justify the effort of recertifying it, etc.

It doesn't actually have to be a USB 3.x controller. It is possible to just use the USB-C connector in USB 2.0 mode.

A lot of smartphones use a Type-C port that only works in USB 2.0 mode.

 

[ac12]

We can talk in 5 years time when ALL of your other devices use a single USB-C cable, except that one frickin' camera you have to keep a Micro USB cable around for. I'm pretty much there already.

Not me, I probably have at LEAST six different USB cables (likely more), for the various devices that use different USB connectors.

 

[zanydroid]

You can definitely make a USB-C connector that is only USB2.0 in speed and delivery, and make it work reliably. Not sure whether it's possible to get it declared compliance (depends on standards politics).

As for why they didn't do it? I bet it cost $100-250K in extra engineering time and factory tooling to change things up, vs reusing the old CAD / dies and whatnot. Olympus doesn't have as much money to throw around as Fuji or Sony.

As for why I want USB-C, even with only USB2.0 power delivery and data speed? It's a much more robust connector than micro-USB (I think it's rated for 10x the number of connection cycles on both the male and female sides), and I already need USB-C cable to power / charge / high speed transfer from my other bodies. Plus sparks joy from the reversibility, much nicer physical feel when it engages, and I'd rather use something with a modern mechanical engineering / industrial design than something worse in every way from the 2000s. That's pretty important...

 

[PakkyT]

Users don't need the speed, as even the highest end SD card can't touch what USB 3.0 is capable of.

A red herring argument. Users could use the speed because the highest end SD cards can exceed what USB 2.0 is capable (they can not only "touch" what USB 2.0 is capable but can hit the ceiling). So going to USB 3.x could benefit the user with faster transfer speed. USB 3.x's max speed doesn't matter.

 

[Jonathan F/2]

Olympus isn't the only one. Nikon released their Z50 with a micro USB port, despite having USB type-C in the Z6/Z7. So I'm guessing it is about pinching pennies. Honestly I prefer type-C because every micro USB phone I've owned eventually suffers from port wear making the device useless.

 

[zanydroid]

Users don't need the speed, as even the highest end SD card can't touch what USB 3.0 is capable of.

Actually USB3.0 is essential for even mere UHS-II cards, which can easily read/write at 100-150MB/s (protocol limited by UHS-II). There are special UHS-II cards that can go double speed, so even such low end devices are pushing the limits of that generation of buses.

I hit these problems all the time:

1. If you put a card on USB2, into Lightroom it will take 2x slower to scan than a UHS-II/USB3 reader.
2. You can easily produce enough data that overwhelms USB2 offloading by taking 4K videos with GH5, or if you take a lot of 20MP bursts on a EM1mkII. (Same goes for 42MP pictures from a high res camera, but wrong forum)

For something like EM5mkIII, it's a minor quality of life issue. But for the next step up in M43 (actually, any video / high res / sports body), you need the faster transfer in all paths for offloading data.

Its also more expensive, in some cases substantially more expensive.

1. Usb 3.0 can only carry 4.5W of power, Type C can do 100W
2. Type C can do bidirectional power, older standards only allowed for host to peripheral transfer

The above also has knock-on effects on other parts of the devise that also increase cost.

These are all optional parts of the standard.

 

[phigmov]

I'm guessing Olympus (and pretty much any manufacturing company with any level of longevity) will have crunched the numbers and will know when they can write off the tooling/design/code changes required to switch interface. I'm also guessing it could be have been done earlier but the longer they string it out the more $$ they make on what they already have; they may even have factored in lost-custom through people looking to only buy USB-C devices.

A shame given other consumer devices seem to have adopted them but I kind of wonder if that stuff isn't just due to shear volume - motherboards and smart-phones are probably churned out of a few factories and rebranded/badged to go into whatever shell is required in massive quantities compared to cameras. Once one company picks up the cost to make the change I'm guessing the factory can offer it to their other clients for less.

Does Oly even make their cameras & lenses or do they just spec it up and get a generic manufactory to spit it out ?

I found the cable a hassle & now just pop the card directly into a reader. Be nice to have more i/o options but the cables usually just end up in a big 'ol box of other cables at the moment.

 

[zanydroid]

I found the cable a hassle & now just pop the card directly into a reader. Be nice to have more i/o options but the cables usually just end up in a big 'ol box of other cables at the moment.

With USB-C and in camera charging, it can be quite handy to dump photos and recharge at the same time. I do that sometimes on Sony, that is pretty fast and when traveling saves the hassle of bringing battery charger and card reader without giving up much. Even with normal charging current most camera batteries can be back to 100% overnight with in body charging.

Practically speaking though, since not all my bodies have this capability, I can’t simplify my cable/reader clutter down to just a USBC cable yet.

 

[phigmov]

With USB-C and in camera charging, it can be quite handy to dump photos and recharge at the same time.

The charging thing would be super handy in terms of junk minimisation. Kind of wonder who will be the first manufacturer to just put a USB-C interface directly into the battery to cut the separate charger unit entirely. That would complicate the battery design, but you'd eliminate the separate charger and power-lead for it.

 

[barry13]

Does Oly even make their cameras & lenses or do they just spec it up and get a generic manufactory to spit it out ?

In China, foreign companies generally can't own or autonomously operate factories. This is partly because the government has ownership in all medium and large domestic companies.
At best, they can partner with a factory company and have a couple engineers on-site for overseeing QA.
At worst the company provides a spec, the factory owners produce a nice sample from newer factories, and then when the order is placed, the manufacturers move production to an older factory with worse tolerances and QC.

I don't know about Vietnam.

Regardless, if Oly designs in USB-C, then it's going to have USB-C.

There are other situations where a company in China designs (or knocks-off) a product, and sells it to anyone who wants to market it. (think fidget spinners and other cheap toys, some batteries, USB chargers, ... But not a high-end camera.)

 

[Jonathan F/2]

In China, foreign companies generally can't own or autonomously operate factories. This is partly because the government has ownership in all medium and large domestic companies.
At best, they can partner with a factory company and have a couple engineers on-site for overseeing QA.
At worst the company provides a spec, the factory owners produce a nice sample from newer factories, and then when the order is placed, the manufacturers move production to an older factory with worse tolerances and QC.

I don't know about Vietnam.

Regardless, if Oly designs in USB-C, then it's going to have USB-C.

There are other situations where a company in China designs (or knocks-off) a product, and sells it to anyone who wants to market it. (think fidget spinners and other cheap toys, some batteries, USB chargers, ... But not a high-end camera.)

I thought QC went up after Olympus moved much of their manufacturing to Vietnam. My Pen-F and E-M5mkII were rock solid, both Vietnam made.

 

[zanydroid]

The charging thing would be super handy in terms of junk minimisation. Kind of wonder who will be the first manufacturer to just put a USB-C interface directly into the battery to cut the separate charger unit entirely. That would complicate the battery design, but you'd eliminate the separate charger and power-lead for it.

I am a bit scared of adding a USB port to internal batteries... seems likely to cause problems

The integrated port is done on some large external batteries for video rigs.

My sony has a great internal battery; that one can last for 6-8 hours of heavy 42MP shooting. At that point you can use in body charging for 99% of the time, since you just need one battery.

For anything under 4 hours (this new Em5 battery and the GH5 one), you do need to keep 2-3 batteries topped off at all times. At least with internal charging if you forget the charger, you can still save your trip with minor inconvenience. IE charge one overnight, then charge spare off a powerbank during downtime. Vs freaking out in a developing country, trying to figure out how to find a Panasonic or Olympus dealer...