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Why M4/3? Why not FF? Is M4/3 a passing phase?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by BSH, May 25, 2012.

  1. BSH

    BSH Mu-43 Veteran

    Jan 18, 2012
    I'm sure this has been hashed over before, but I just saw an ad for a Canon Rebel T3 for $380 (US), with the kit lens. That's less than a number of M4/3 cameras (like the EP3 I've been lusting for). That's hardly more than a GF3 kit. And you get FF!

    So why would anyone buy a Pen (or Panny) when you can get a FF kit for a similar or lesser price? Granted, it's just the low-end Rebel, but still, everybody says FF is the best. Why buy 'lesser' product for more $$$? Aside from the obviously innate coolness of the new Pens. ;)  Okay, just venting frustration, and waiting for the day the EP3 drops low enough for me to afford.
  2. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Actually you don't. You get a 1.6X APS-C sensor, or one roughly 40% larger in area than the m4/3 one. You do not get a full-frame sensor (3.5X the size of a m4/3 one).

    • Like Like x 1
  3. WT21

    WT21 Super Moderator Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    Have you worked it through yourself yet? Tried both? The differences become pretty clear. There are plusses and negatives in both directions.

    Is a camera that costs less, but you don't take with you, actually cheaper in a cost-per-shot-taken use?
  4. crsnydertx

    crsnydertx Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Dec 31, 2010
    Houston, TX
    Latest Canon FF model is the 5D Mark III; body-only price in the US is $3499. Its predecessor - the Mark II - can be had now for "only" $2200.
  5. Markb

    Markb Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Jun 9, 2011
    Kent, UK
  6. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    I urge you to try them both out. The biggest advantage of :43: (even moreso than the "innate coolness") is the size of both the body and the lenses that the smaller sensor allows. Every camera has trade-offs, so you just need to determine which design compromises you are willing to live with.
  7. joysmahal

    joysmahal Mu-43 Regular

    Nov 21, 2011
    Seattle, WA
    OP: I think you're a little mixed up with APS-C/Crop cameras with Full Frame. Rebels, 40/50/60D, and 7D have APS-C sized sensors. These sensors are slightly bigger than MF3, but the jump to Full Frame sized cameras are a lot more significant and the price for those bodies are a lot more expensive. The cheapest FF cameras I believe are the 5DII and the D700 which are a generation old and cost about $2,000+ brand new.

    I don't know much about the Rebel T3, but I know that it's the lower version of the T3i. Rebels are capable of taking nice pictures, but the lenses are a lot bigger than MF3 lenses. I think the main reason why people use M43 is because the bodies and lenses are a lot smaller than DSLRs bodies and lenses and you don't take a tremendous hit in picture quality like you would with a high end P&S.
  8. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    FF????? Rebel T3?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: 
    My dear friend please google whats Full frame sensor . Moreover for ur kind info u can pick up MFT EPL1 for USD 149 body only and add a decent lens to it . New EP3 is for USD 579 with 17 mm 2.8 prime at camera camera.
  9. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

  10. slith

    slith Mu-43 Regular

    Apr 4, 2012
    Dublin, Ireland
    Wow, trolling much, BSH?
    • Like Like x 1
  11. spinyman

    spinyman Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Nov 19, 2010
    San Diego
    The fact that you aren't scooping up this deal answers your own question.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    The E-PM1 with kit lens will far outperform the Rebel T3 with kit lens in just about every way I can imagine. Though you would need to buy the VF-2 or VF-3 for it to have better viewfinder capabilities, but once you do you'll find it to be MUCH better than the dinky, dim, cheap pentamirror finder on the Rebel series. Everything else is an improvement right out of the box, from sharpness and line resolution (who cares about pixel resolution?) to focus speed and accuracy. My question would be, why buy an entry-level DSLR and suffer with all the bulk and inferior performance just to save a few bucks?
    Of course, in comparing to the Mini, the cheapest new m4/3 camera I can think of, the Rebel does have more external controls and comes with a viewfinder out of the box. But when you look through the Rebel's viewfinder and suffer with the limitations in features (Canon has a habit of crippling lower end models to create a cheaper market for them), you'll find you aren't missing anything with the PEN Mini. ;) 

    As already mentioned, the Rebel is not Full Frame. Its sensor is only wider than the Four-Thirds sensor. Which I think is wasteful since lenses are round and produce a roun d image circle - not oblong.
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Lets not get sucked into FF vs MFT vs APS-C , rather lets teach this poor guy whats the difference between different formats and sensors . He needs some more info and insight .
    This happens when u shoot with FF ..lol...:rofl::rofl::rofl: U have to bend on ur knees..Its so heavy lol
    Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
    • Like Like x 8
  14. blue

    blue Mu-43 Veteran

    Jun 1, 2010
    Why APS ?

    <i>My question would be, why buy an entry-level DSLR and suffer with all the bulk and inferior performance just to save a few bucks?</i>

    Yes, my question is similar - why APS at all ? There's no real sensor advantage. For that you have to go FF, a much bigger jump, and the body and lens sizes for APS is a real downside compared to m43.

    If I was doing a pro portrait or landscape then I might consider FF/medium format (and keep the m43 as well !), but no place for APS at all.
  15. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    My dear friend ..Please get whatever suits ur needs and photography style. We like and love MFT and it suits us ..thats it .
    Lets shoot and not talk again and again about same topic ..Please
  16. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    You can get an awesome "full frame" film body for under $100 USD :biggrin: :biggrin:
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    That will perform better as well ..
  18. LisaO

    LisaO Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Mar 18, 2010
    New York Metro Area
    As it's been pointed out previously the Rebel T3 is NOT full frame. The only FF digital camera one might find for under $500 is a fairly beat up 6 year old 5D classic which I think sells used for $800-$900 at this time.

    As one that shoots full frame (5DIII, M9 and soon D800E) as well as smaller cameras (O-MD E-M5, X-Pro1, NEX and others) and there are times for each. Carrying a FF DSLR kit around can weigh 30 lbs. or more, carrying a M4/3 kit is much lighter, smaller, easier and will be a pleasant way for many people to enjoy photography without the burden of big heavy equipment and still get quality images. A small APS is also a great option and many people will appreciate the advantages of the larger sensor will bring but recent updates in M4/3 like the O-MD E-M5 really shows that M4/3 is a viable and advancing format that many people will enjoy.
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    I've extensively used 135 format (aka 35mm format aka "full frame") DSLR, APS-C DSLR, 4/3 DSLR, APS-C mirrorless, and 4/3 mirrorless (aka Micro 4/3 or MFT). Each of these has strengths and weaknesses. I only know that MFT is right for me as a primary system because of trial and error.

    The entry to digital 135 format right now is pretty affordable. Pick up a 5D classic and some first gen EF primes plus a Tamron zoom, and you've got super shallow DOF ability and a versatile kit for less than $2k total expenditure.

    Nothing wrong with an APS-C DSLR either. If I were mostly shooting birds and sports, that's probably what I would get. I'm not saying that a 135 format is worse for birds/sports, and I'm not saying that an APS-C DSLR is only good for birds/sports. I'm just giving an example of what might lead me to get an APS-C DSLR. If I were mostly shooting landscapes and didn't have to bring two kids with me wherever I go, I'd probably go with 135 format and get a D800.

    For my current wants and needs? I want a small body. I want small lenses with performance that makes me smile when I use them wide open. I want live view. I want touch AF. I want face detect with proximal eye priority and automatic metering based on the skin tones of the detected face. I want a flip LCD. I want body image stabilization. I want a beautiful camera that feels good in my hand and urges me to carry it. I want to use the same system as the great folks I know in this community. I want AF points that cover nearly the entire frame and work just as well in the corners as the do in the middle. I want to be free of any thought of lens microadjustment. I want an EVF with customizable information shown. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. MFT is the right primary system for me.

    Certainly nothing wrong with a Rebel T3 though!
    • Like Like x 5
  20. emirabal

    emirabal Mu-43 Regular

    For me

    Im not a regular on the forum, as in i dont post everyday, but i have posted and stated that, the decision for me was easy, i borrowed my sisters canon for a week and HATED carrying that thing around. I was a point and shoot for about 6-8 years or so since my minolta broke (Great camera).

    I then went to the best buys and targets and debated the whole size thing (ony nex and lumix) and was much more comfortable with the smaller ones. Ultimately the pancake lenses did it for me and being able to pocket the camera sometimes makes a HUGE difference. I take more photos now than i did with the canon i carried for a week.

    Different Strokes for Different Folks.

    I guess for me is comfortability and carryability (are those even real words)
    • Like Like x 1
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