Why I think M43 may miss the boat

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by stripedrex, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. stripedrex

    stripedrex Do or do not. There is no try.

    Jun 8, 2012
    Long Island, NY
    I have an Olympus and Panasonic for a few reasons:

    Olympus- IBIS is awesome, video is so so. I see the video break apart way too often (kids in the pool splashing, moving trees with the wind). Needs more bitrate for sure. Autofocus is no where near Panasonics. I can't even use it for changing focus between 2 subjects with how far off focus needs to get before it gets it locked. A shame really making IBIS a manual focus low motion activity scene only use for me. For photographs imo it's near perfect, ergonomics, buttons and controls are no where near a GH2 / GH3 imo but I can live wit that.

    Panasonics - Video is AWESOME but I wish it had 5 axies IBIS. If the GH2 and GH3 had IBIS I think I wouldn't be looking for another body. If the GX7 had 5 axis IBIS short of having the perfect lens to go with it I'd be done.

    I find myself in constant anticipation on m43 rumors because I'm just shy of the perfect camera body and have HIGH HOPES the high end OMD does video proper and leverages not only IBIS but sensor phase detection for autofocus.

    Lenses - I'm now stocked with awesome primes, and I find I get SUPER frustrated with them. 20mm being my favorite I can't use on my OMD (slow focus) and fixed on my GX1. When I shoot the 45mm while family is over it's amazing then I turn and need to take a group shot of kids playing BAM I go run to put the 25 or 20 on and I miss the moment. I can grab potraits of each but I wanted the bigger picture. To this end I feel I want a fast zoom. I've tried shooting indoors with the OMD at 2.8 to see if the 12-35 would cut it and it kind of does but I go high iso at times because I need high shutter speed (kids). This makes me want a better fast zoom (larger or not).

    Conclusion - Now I can say I LOVE this system but the gaps above keeping me hoping for something perfect to come out. While I know people say this 'doesn't exist' I think some competitors are about to make it happen. Being a hybrid shooter I thinking the upcoming Canon 70D plus the now released Sigma 18-35 F1.8 will be THE system to own for hybrid shooters. This system (granted larger setup) would replace ALL my primes and satisfy my video wants (minus IBIS). If you look at videos of 70D's dual pixel phase detection autofocus in video it's exactly what videographers are looking for and what I'm hoping miraculously Olympus pulls off on their new camera coming out. Now while the GX7 comes close to me to being a perfect camera (minus IBIS) the Sony NEX7 coming it is supposed to have Olympus's IBIS implemented. I don't know what zooms are available for the NEX but if the Sigma 18-35 F1.8 comes out for the NEX and this body exists I may consider the switch.

    Anyhow, just some thoughts that have been going through my mind, curious if others share similar gaps in the system as I see leading to constant GAS. I always feel like 'it's almost there'. GX7 with IBIS + a slightly faster zoom then the current 2.8 set would have me stop.

    IDEAL - What keeps me waiting, the hopes for a Olympus high end OMD with phase detect autofocus that works in video with IBIS and SUPER fast focus with legacy 4/3 glass. Sell my primes (minus the 20) and get the 14-35 F2 Olympus and BAM, no more GAS. Oh and the 35-100 f2.8 for outdoors, then no more GAS. Wait, then the 7-14 =).

    End rant.
  2. jnewell

    jnewell Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 23, 2011
    Boston, MA
    I've owned a GF1, GX1 and G5. The OM-D is clearly faster focusing than any of them.

    I like owning one body from each side of the family - they have complementary strengths. Honestly, though, I haven't encountered the problems that some users reported with some lenses on the other manufacturer's m4/3 body.
  3. Liamness

    Liamness Mu-43 Veteran

    Apr 20, 2011
    You seem to basically be waiting for the right glass. Well, only the established SLR systems from Nikon and Canon can be said to have a categorically better selection of glass than MFT. Out of the upstarts, it has the most momentum.

    Some cameras having features the others don't is a fact of modern consumer electronics; companies aren't trying to cram every feature into each product, they have all kinds of other considerations. Will adding this cannibalise sales of their higher end models? Can they increase their profit margins by removing / not upgrading this component, and still produce a product that is competitive market? They are not trying to make the perfect camera. Every electronics manufacturer does this, in fact it is particularly prevalent in the camera industry.

    If one company put every single feature they could into a camera, and then sold it for a low margin, it would be bad news for everyone (except the consumers, of course). With this in mind, I was surprised to see how many new features the GX7 had, given that IBIS and the tilting viewfinder are new and exciting features. They could've easily held one back to include in a later model, so that it also had a unique selling point. Of course I'm glad they didn't.
  4. RnR

    RnR Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 25, 2011
    Brisbane, Australia
    Here ya go...

    (FT5) First High End OMD test report. | 43 Rumors
  5. CiaranCReilly

    CiaranCReilly Mu-43 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2012
    Ciaran Reilly
    Interesting analysis, while I don't shoot any video I can really appreciate your points. The 70D + 12-35 f/1.8 combo does indeed sound like a perfect set up apart from the size of it. Here's hoping 43 Rumors are right!
  6. ApGfoo

    ApGfoo Mu-43 Regular

    Dec 10, 2012
    Bay Area
    I don't think M43 missed the boat. They haven't reached the boat mind you but they are headed towards it.

    Wanting a zoom lens faster than the Lumix 12-35 with a constant aperture faster than 2.8 with a camera body that takes the still image quality plus IBIS from the OMD and merging it with the video quality of the GH3 is going to take some time... Sounds like a dream system. Who wouldn't want that. One body and one lens for everything.
  7. nstelemark

    nstelemark Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    May 28, 2013
    Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada
    14-35 F2? It is huge. The 12-60 is big, this is bigger, almost twice the weight of the 12-60. To me the biggest lens that feels right on the OM-D is the 14-54ii.

    Matching the lens to the body size is worthwhile IMO.
  8. arson519

    arson519 Mu-43 Regular

    Feb 10, 2013
    Panasonic has better video than canon that's why I came to m43, plus no real videographer uses auto focus
  9. robbie36

    robbie36 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 25, 2010
    rob collins
    For M43 to miss the boat, you need to assume that someone else was actually on the boat.

    So the 20/1.7 isnt as fast at focusing as other M43 primes but it still does well against its competitors.
    The 45/1.8 is a prime so it tends to lack flexibility in its focal length.
    The 12-35 2.8 is a bit slow but it is the fastest standard zoom lens in mirrorless.

    Actually you admit to wanting the 35-100 2.8 which doesnt have a competitor in mirrorless.
    And also the 7-14 F4 that doesnt have a matching lens that is as wide in mirrorless.

    I am not even convinced that you want the 14-35 f2 if the OMD1 focuses it fast. Wont you complain it is too heavy at 900g? Or that its zoom range isnt enough?
  10. stripedrex

    stripedrex Do or do not. There is no try.

    Jun 8, 2012
    Long Island, NY
    I used to talk the same way and realize in practice shooting family and daily life it's just not practical to manual focus most of the time. What makes shooting DSLR so nice is the shallow DOF and that's what makes autofocus so hard. I lose my attention on composition and it's hard to keep the camera steady when focusing at the real life angles I use. 1 example I just had, I'm on the other side of the kitchen table with my 3 year old son and I have a 20mm on and the composition I want has my arm fully extended as he blurbs all kinds of silly things moving forward, back, side to side and with the GH2 I had choppy video with autofocus actually doing a decent job. With the OMD, tracking is HORRIBLE with the 20mm but it's super steady. I'd imagine with the GH2 if I'm hunkered forward fiddling with the focus while my sons moving around the composition with suck and the focus would seem unnatural. That's just 1 situation of MANY, kids are just hard to shoot. I have learned to stop down so I have more DOF forgiveness but indoors I have to shoot wide open sometimes (evenings). Anyhow check out this video of the 70D, it's how I would phase detection autofocus in real life. Looks like it was shot by a crew where someone held the camera and someone else controlled the focus. Imagine it had IBIS and fast constant 1.8 zoom? I feel I'd NEVER miss a moment. And my shooting style is family and catching moments. You'll see my flickr is 95% family and friends and getting the moments and I want to find a way where I'm not fiddling with the tech or lenses and focusing on what I want to capture.

  11. I'm not going to be satisfied until they produce a 12-300 f/1.
  12. Mellow

    Mellow Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 27, 2010
    Florida or Idaho
    No disrespect to the OP, but I think video is vastly oversold. Sure, there are some people who want and demand high-quality video, but most people--in this forum, at least--seem to use their cameras for taking still photographs mostly. So I don't think the lack of high-end video on the Olys is much of an issue; what's there is more than enough for most needs. I mean, I really don't need cinema-quality video to capture my kids splashing around in the pool.

    Again, no disrespect intended to those who use take a lot of video, and value those features. I just don't think they make up a sizable proportion of m43 buyers. If there are data to show me wrong I'd certainly reconsider.
  13. stripedrex

    stripedrex Do or do not. There is no try.

    Jun 8, 2012
    Long Island, NY
    Yep, very good points =). Holy crap that's a heavy lens (2x heavier then current 14-140!!) but if it means I don't miss the moment I won't mind so much based on my typical usage. I realize now that a majority of my indoor shot wants are somewhere between 17mm - 40mm and flexibility that I need is typically at homes so the weight 'should' be ok. Whenever I go out and plan to be indoors and don't want to lug lenses around I grab the GX1 + 20mm (I wish I could grab the omd and 20mm but I miss moments with the focus hunting =( and even with manual focus I'd prob miss it, maybe I should practice).

    As for the 35-100 I'd probably not it enough to justify the price and would likely put a wider range zoom on (I usually have the 14-140 or 12-60 on when I'm outdoors although I always wish for a bit higher quality glass I'm usually surprised how good it comes out when I get to lightroom). The 7-14 on the other is one I'd love to own. In the meantime I just shoot several shots pano style and merge in post with an unusual amount of success =). I really like that 'distorted' fisheyeish look though.

  14. nstelemark

    nstelemark Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    May 28, 2013
    Halifax, Nova Scotia Canada
    How about the 25 1.4? With your feet as the zoom :wink:
  15. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member


    How many pages ? Any guess guys ?
    The flavour of the year is MFT bashing these days :biggrin: In one form or another it comes back . OP , it's very simple .. Sell ur MFT gear and buy Canon 70D with Sigma 18-55 1.8 and live happily there after :2thumbs::2thumbs:
  16. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Except when you're in a crowded area or on a cliff with no where to move...
  17. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    What is video? :biggrin:
  18. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Did mention how wonderful 14-54mmII is for videos with beautiful manual focus and tank like built :wink:
  19. stripedrex

    stripedrex Do or do not. There is no try.

    Jun 8, 2012
    Long Island, NY
    No disrespect taken =) .. I didn't think I was going to strike a chord with everyone here on my personal gaps with the system. I'd be surprised though if I'm the only one with the above desires. I do believe there's a strong amount of Panasonic based video enthusiasts thanks to the GH1 / GH2 hacks which actually brought me here. Panasonic was the first imo to create a wonderful hybrid ils camera that's a true jack of all trades. Of those enthusiasts I'm probably not the only one to drool over the OMD IBIS. When I'm video geeking around I sometimes attach my cameras to a steadycam rig but found I never use it because I have to put it on, take it off, balance it, etc which is entirely impractical for daily shooting. 5 axis gives me steady cam like shooting which I still have a hard time believing how well it works.

    Anyhow, coincidentally speaking of video enthusiasts the following GH3 promo video was shot with MOSTLY the Olympus 14-35 F2 4/3 lens:


    You'll see that lens and rig all over the behind the scenes here where he states he used 1 lens for most of the shoot:


    Bloom does state most of the shots were done handheld, I find my handheld shots with no ibis are not as good =). I'm guessing the weight of the system combined helps a lot.
  20. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Then turn around and star shooting the cliff :2thumbs::biggrin:
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