why I feel the E-M1 equals FF these days :)

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by HappyFish, Nov 25, 2013.

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  1. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Sep 8, 2012
    OK sorry I do not write well some of you know that to others sorry :)  just cant write :) 

    again I come at this from a wedding and people photographer that shoots events and portraits
    I dont shoot sports not really a nature guy either but I do some when we go camping or to places ? and I don't plan on dumping FF and love the 36MP cameras and want a sony A7r and want a Fuji X pro 2 when it comes out I love cameras and don't feel any camera is BETTER than others as a whole but each one has its cool thing
    DXO scores are strange beasts if we go by those look the E-M1 to the FF like 5DMKIII or the D600 only spot it lacks is ISO performance ? don't shoot past what we ever could with film no worries in the day I never come up against it I know many pros who won't shoot past 1600 that are good who don't want to push the ugly high iso cause high iso is never as good or clean :) 

    its like having a Mini Cooper convertible a Ferrari and a SUV in your garage :)  all have uses all are unique

    why do I think its equal
    is it better NO
    is it worse NO !
    both have pros cons :)  that is the huge point !!!! and why equal

    we do have more noise in the E-M1and not quite as smooth of looking file at times but what we do get is a great size file to handle 16MP and the noise is fine even pushed to what I feel its max is at 4000 even though it starts to loose a bit so this is where FF pulls ahead once we hit that 2000 ISO range but at 1600 ? its all equal
    yes there is more noise and I never had a client say OH NO there is a touch more noise in this image than the other one I can see at %100 on the screen NEVER !! and if noise is getting in the way of a image the image is not strong enough and should not be a keeper !!!!
    now that sharper look ? I don't know what it is but BW out of the E-M1 are awesome and I think that sharper look of the smaller sensor at times makes BW nicer and the noise structure is nicer so its my preferred BW these days
    now I can smooth out the M4/3 files so even peaking its pretty much impossible to figure out which is which

    if you took a well done M4/3 print and put it in one room then a FF in another I would say it might take a back and forth to say OH that is the M4/3 if both are don't perfect (our goal is perfection)

    the Nikons recover shadows way better than any cameras for sure and mainly the D600 or D800
    since I have also a post production company I see a lot of cameras a lot of files
    the D800 is detail king (in 35mm format size or FF as its called) the D600 IMHO has a bit better noise handling but the D800 can do great purely on the MP size so in print I think they both end up being the same resized to a certain size they end up being about the same ? but if one printed large or really wanted crop room no doubt the D800 is king

    now the 1DX and the D4 are animals when it comes to high iso they are truly amazing clean

    the MKIII is a great camera with a OK sensor IMHO again not bashing it just not as wow in recovery either way but canon has a look to it that some prefer and the body ergonomics are better on canon than nikon I think :)  again I think not saying YES just me :)  hahahah

    now the E-M1 I think recovers nicer not meaning blown out saving your bacon but recovering highlights to me the OLY has a bit nicer does not look recovered as much as some do :)  again just me !

    of course handling ? yeah the FF can focus better at some things and the OLY can focus better at others
    I love the tilt screen and EVF and sometimes prefer optical VF but the tilt screen gives it bonus points

    yeah specialty lens on FF I hear that a lot !!! you can do that on a OLY :)  I just say OK mount a Leica M mount proper distance on a canon :)  I can adapt any lens to M4/3 if I want so it becomes a playground argument and is not worth it both again have pros cons :)  or I can be 4 years old and say show me at least e 0.95 lens for your canon or nikon :)  neenner neener neener :) 
    I think we know that on this forum lots of lens options we M4/3 users can use

    I did not compare to Leica cause I don't shoot Leica and I think Leica is its own thing and not fast focus FF that people like to compare to the M4/3

    when I had the 1D back in 2001 or when it came out it was WOW sure it was not quite as good as film but the advantages were huge when the MKII came out I thought WOW this nails it quality is as good as film up to a certain size and the 1DS was a fine detail monster in its day
    of course having 2 1D and a 1Ds is $17,000 for bodies alone and today the E-M1 destroys those files big time at less than %10 of its price !!! pretty darn amazing

    the things that mad the E-M1 jump for me were
    the EVF and its size :) 
    the body handling and buttons !!!!
    I never had a issue with the E-M5 files I think the E-M1 is a touch nicer for a pro with iso 100 and 8000 gives us a bit more wiggle room to work with on bright days
    the grip IMHO is nicer fitting into the hand and I use it vert mode where the E-M5 I did not like the feel in hand

    if a sports guy says its not equal cause of focus I might agree or a guy shooting birds etc.. :)  again I shoot people mostly
    • Like Like x 9
  2. Ulfric M Douglas

    Ulfric M Douglas Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 6, 2010
    Thread titles like these do a disservice to the whole realm of digital photography, and frankly look stupid and bring down the forum. Someone can simply point to this and say "oh those m4/3rds fanatics having another go at full frame!"
    E-M1 equals a D800e the same way a Guppy equals an Alsatian. Apples & Oranges. Right tool for the right job.

    I guess the meat of your post is about "for me it's fine" ... but that's not reflected in your trolling thread title, and is absolutely pointless to keep repeating.

    (A sentence should start with a capital letter : off topic, sorry)
    • Like Like x 5
  3. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    Thanks for posting what I was thinking Ulfric. I was going to give it a go, but I'm glad I waited for you.
  4. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Sep 8, 2012
    well I clearly stated WHY I FEEL !! in the title ! also clearly stated the E-M1 not M4/3 :) 

    I did not say it troll like ?
    also I give people a idea where I am coming from :) 

    and the E-M1 is a new camera and I wanted to put about a dozen working paying jobs under it before I spoke up on it ! and shot those like I normal do along side my FF gear
    so this is not something I have repeated yet ?

    sure some don't care one bit like yourself so not sure why you even bother reading or posting ?
    but I think some others do enjoy reading others opinions its a forum about cameras :)  I love reading threads from people here :) 

    as far as someone saying M4/3 fan ? again I love all cameras and shoot all kinds and still shoot FF so let someone say oh M4/3 fanatic ? I would say YUP and FF and all cameras :)  I am a photographer I don't get pigeon holed into one thing ! and my portfolio and work can back up what I say !

    I guess if you do not like it don't read it :)  hahahahahah

    also really who cares what someone else might think if a FF person does not like M4/3 gear ? they are the one with the issue IMHO

    • Like Like x 3
  5. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    HappyFish, it's important to understand how much Us vs Them antipathy we've had around here. It's especially bad when a camera really gets attention, like the E-M5 did and the E-M1 is now.
  6. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Did he change the title or did it always start with "why I feel...."?

    I know Chad through a few forums and I don't think he's a troll. I do know that he has been waiting for a long time for the m4/3 gear that would allow him to move away from DSLRs altogether. Historically his posts are mostly personal opinion and if you go back I think you'll see the early days where he said m4/3 was not there yet, for him. But he's supported the format. He also owns and uses 35mm DSLRs, so he's hardly a hater there either. Now he's saying he feels the m4/3 is mostly good enough to replace his bigger cameras and he feels the E-M1 is the camera to do that. To me it reads like an opinion piece from a working photographer/commercial printer.

    This is after all, a site for m4/3 enthusiasts. Unless he made any false statements, shouldn't he be as entitled to an opinion as anyone else? The guy has nearly 500 posts. I don't think it's entirely fair that you guys should be lecturing about what is and isn't appropriate to post.

    • Like Like x 14
  7. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    You're not wrong flash. It's mostly the thread title that comes across in an inflammatory way imo. Like I said, I've seen too much back and forth about formats or brands or whatever, so this hit a nerve. But yeah, HappyFish should certainly feel free to post as he sees fit.
  8. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Sep 8, 2012
    Flash I did not change the title ?

    I asked the mods to delete the thread :)  since you know I was on DWF since 2002 and POTN since 2002 I was into this digital from the get go !

    ahhahaha I am a pretty high end shooter with a great career not sure photographers love to pat themselves on there back so here is my pat on my back :) 

    how many here used to be in Architectural Digest or Food & Wine or Conde Nast Travel on a monthly basis and have made a solid 6 figure career shooting I would have thought like yourself another working pro with great stuff contributes
    how many have been able to do things like Dive on the USS Arizona and take photos ! which is pretty much NOBODY !! oh and I was with Gene Hackman ? so yeah pat myself on the back I have had a INSANE career with a camera :)  just wanted to share that with others
    was the first featured photographer with Capture one back in the early days etc..

    not saying we pros are above anyone either but another angle on things want to make that clear I also learn a lot here :)  forgot the guy who got me good info on auto-ISO :)  to him thanks :) 
    and we are not better photographers but we are able to repeat what we do on a daily basis under varying conditions etc.. so I do think pros have a good bit to add to things :) 

    I tried to make it clear where I come from
    • Like Like x 3
  9. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    I don't know what any of that has to do with the thread title, but clearly you have an impressive resume and are undoubtedly an excellent photographer.
  10. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Hi Guys ..
    I think OP has just expressed his own personal opinion . Moreover it seems that English is not his first language but that doesn't mean he doesn't know photgraphy . He also stated very clearly that he doesn't know how to write properly ,so let's be gentle and congratulate him on finally finding a camera which would let him shoot and enjoy photography . The FF vs MFT thing will continue as long as both formats are in production and we keep on using them . I am practicing self restrain and staying away from such discussions . Finally I thing it's a natural human tendency to compare any new gadget with the one he or she already owns . If I buy an i5 touch tablet , I would end up comparing it with my iPad although they are different products .
    • Like Like x 3
  11. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Sep 8, 2012
    cause to say I am a troll and dis service ? I have a good career in this industry I am no troll !
    and my career if anything should be a service to M4/3 as I clearly use it and did all last year !

    I even shot a cell phone for a mobile company ! I cant disclose any of it and I did that on my E-M5 with 60 macro ! and the art director never even questioned my choice of gear !

    I also don't know why anyone has a issue with the thread title cause it clearly states why I feel

    you saying It's mostly the thread title that comes across in an inflammatory way imo.
    HappyFish, it's important to understand how much Us vs Them antipathy we've had around here. It's especially bad when a camera really gets attention, like the E-M5 did and the E-M1 is now.

    again I don't worry about the us vs them ? I was just giving my thoughts on WHY I felt its great and again did not say M4/3 said E-M1 !
    maybe its I am a working pro and never felt the need to defend my gear ?

    same thing Gordon and I both know you get the question don't some people ask you why such a small camera at a wedding ? NOPE we are pros we carry ourselves as a pro at work and nobody questions it unless its some troll photographer but even then it has not happened to me :) 

    I thought maybe some would like to hear my angle on this great new camera I stated before I wanted to shoot it for work some before I commented :) 

    its obvious now some on this forum are afraid of the outside world making fun of them or something ? or fear deep inside they feel there gear is not equal ? and afraid a FF guy might say something ?
    again I am not one that thinks OH I better not say my M4/3 gear is nice in fear someone might not agree ?
    • Like Like x 4
  12. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Ain't that the truth.. :) 

    • Like Like x 1
  13. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    I've been on this site since day 1, and I've been on many other forums before this one. Like some others, knowing that this kind of thread title ultimately often leads to a pissing match and need for moderator work, my initial reaction to the thread title is one of "not again..."

    On the other hand, it's not every member's responsibility to know how threads have gone, tend to go, etc. For example, back in 2009 I had no idea people were going to jump all over me for posting this: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/33304262

    And the fact is, I was enjoying a moment of feeling good about MFTs, posting about it in a MFTs forum, and the fact that a bunch of people flamed me for it was their problem, not mine. After all, I never said MFTs was better than anything else. I simply said that at that time I was dumping my DSLRs for MFTs.

    This is a MFTs site, and if someone wants to post about how their MFTs camera is just as good as some other format, that is perfectly fine. Yes the title can lead to a bunch of nonsense but not if people take it in the spirit offered instead of getting defensive and offensive. The OP clearly uses both formats and beyond, so it isn't a pissing match for him. He has no horse in any such race. And frankly, if anyone reacts to him the way some of the jerks reacted to me in that DPR thread I linked, I will ban them myself, not for disagreeing, but because those kinds of personal attacks are not tolerated here.

    If the OP still wants this thread closed, I will close it, but I don't think it ought to be necessary.
    • Like Like x 13
  14. HappyFish

    HappyFish Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Sep 8, 2012
    sadly its my first language :)  won't get into it :)  just cant grasp grammar ? but I am insane good at business so it makes up for it :)  but in person I can present things very well :)  actually presented windows 98 for HP at Microsoft for the launch and how it would work together for the better with HP MS :) 
    also did some technical training with HP for digital imagine and printing in my past :) 
    they knew I could not write but hired me for presenting in person skills and lived with my writing :)  hahahahah thanks for that HP :) 

    like I say everyone has somewhere they lack mine is grammar :) 

    been a working pro a long time and been dying to get something in my hands the size of my old film cameras again :)  that can deliver also having glass that does not weigh a ton etc.. the E-M5 was close the E-M1 brings it so close now its something I can feel %100 confident in

    and again funny cause I shoot with all formats ? and I don't get into the one is better and tried to make that clear :) 

    • Like Like x 2
  15. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    From my perspective, it has nothing to do with feeling my m4/3s gear is not equal - it's almost the opposite. It's just that I don't want to argue about it, or have arguments about it spill in to the rest of the forum.

    I would've been smarter just to avoid this one. Mistake corrected moving forward.
  16. tetraphoenix

    tetraphoenix Mu-43 Regular

    Oct 30, 2013
    Thats pretty awesome. I am so happy hearing that more and more pros are using mft at some of their jobs.

    Sent from my iPhone using Mu-43 mobile app
    • Like Like x 3
  17. Robstar1963

    Robstar1963 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 10, 2011
    Isle of Wight England UK
    Robert (Rob)
    One thing that has annoyed me lately on this forum and has led me to visit less often is the way that some of the 'more enthusiastic' members have been jumped upon by others who value only the 'truth' and what is right or wrong and who seem to consider themselves better informed or more balanced in their views and beliefs
    One of those 'more enthusiastic' members in particular is now noticeably absent much of the time from starting threads and when he posts the enthusiasm is clearly controlled for the benefit of others critical of his 'style'
    Some of the most entertaining threads on this forum have for me been from those that are 'over enthusiastic' about the M4/3 format and it's equipment line up
    I don't always want to read about raw files, dynamic ranges. image stability issues, and technical issues that I do not understand or need to know about
    I want also to open up threads that are a bit more light hearted and/or entertaining and from people that are spilling over with enthusiasm for this format
    Members sometimes comment on the fact that M4/3 is not promoted well enough by Olympus and Panasonic, yet when someone on here is clearly over the moon with the format and what it can now achieve they are criticised for being too enthusiastic and comparing M4/3 with other formats that they shouldnt consider in the same breath
    We as members can choose to be equally as responsible for promoting the format as the manufacturers are
    I ventured back into photography in 2010 for the first time since my teens and I chose 4/3rds (Olympus e420) for compactness
    Needing video due to my beloved daughter growing I ventured into M4/3 with a GH1
    Since then (circa 2010) I have several times bought a DSLR thinking I needed something 'better' but sold it without using it continuing on with M4/3
    I have now got to the point whereby I don't look at DSLRs any more as I now know for sure that M4/3 is the format for me
    I want to read threads from people who are similarly enthusiastic about the format for whatever reason and no matter how 'misguided' they might be in their beliefs about the system and its capabilities
    Visitors to this forum can surely only be more likely to adopt the format and the forum if they read threads from members brimming with excitement about their latest purchase or the latest model from the M4/3 stable and this is one easy way to promote the format and the forum and to encourage more to join us here and stay
    Critical comments and remarks made by 'those in the know' towards long standing enthusiasts will do nothing to attract and keep new members or users and will do nothing to ensure that this forum is the friendly light hearted place it has been and should be where technical issues, equipment reviews, comparisons and insights live happily alongside entertaining sometimes challenging views and exchanges
    I want to hear everything from everyone who wishes to have an input (except blatant troll entries) and wish to have an input myself without thinking 'is this going to go down well with those who have placed themselves above me'
    None of the above is intended as inflammatory or intended to insult any members, it is written only because I would like the forum and the format to develop into the best that they can be rather than be hampered or restricted by unnecessary limitations and issues
    • Like Like x 12
  18. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Thanks Robert :2thumbs: Exellent writing and being enthusiastic puts you on receiving end most of the times and who knows better than me:biggrin: I think most of OP's feelings were lost in his style of writing and this is an easy meat to jump on . I am very glad to see how people are enjoying new EM1 :thumbup:( I manage to overcome the GAS this time )
    • Like Like x 1
  19. 50orsohours

    50orsohours Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Oct 13, 2013
    Portland Oregon
    Chad, you are one of the members, whose posts I always read. Always.

    Not sure what is happening to this site. Please continue to be YOU. You too Bhup!

    Interesting how some members forget that they are just "members" here. If they don't like a thread, they should not click on it and act like dictators. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: 
    • Like Like x 2
  20. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    I should certainly hope so! :smile:

    • Like Like x 1
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