1. Reminder: Please use our affiliate links for holiday shopping!

Why do different camera systems offend photographers?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by veereshai, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. veereshai

    veereshai Mu-43 Top Veteran

    777
    May 12, 2011
    Arlington, VA
    Recently, I have seen a few photographers taking offense to other photographers praising Fuji on this forum. They keep saying that Fuji posts should be made on FujiXspot.com (the dedicated Fuji site) rather than here. It could just be my perception but more often than not, I sense that people are offended by Fuji cameras and the praise they get. To me, it sounds like this is what they're trying to say: "How dare Fuji make a good camera and how dare people like it? My OM-D is the best one out there and don't post here. This is not the forum".

    What is interesting to me is that such strong emotions do not come out when we talk about Nex cameras and praise how good they are. Is it because Nex as a system on similar price level as micro four thirds cameras? Is price the driving factor for such strong emotions as I have seen many such comments when it came to Leica system as well?

    To cut the long story short, why do photographers get offended by people choosing/praising something else other than their choice (especially if the other choice was more expensive)? Do we as a photography community will respect other people's choices only if they align with our beliefs and choices?

    I don't really care about the trolling part, but what I would like to understand is the thought process/psychological aspect of choices and the attempt to justify them or force them to troll. What are your thoughts about choices and online interaction?

    I'd request anyone who wishes to participate to keep the replies on topic and to the point and not get into "My OM-D/Fuji is really better than your OM-D/Fuji". TBH, I really don't care about your camera system.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  2. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    I'm not sure what cases you're referring to, but in general it's more about psychology than technology. A different system means some else made a different choice, which calls your own choices into question. The more different the other system, the bigger the uncertainty. Nikon vs. Canon DSLRs is a closer call than a DSLR vs. mu43, at least in most people's eyes.
     
  3. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    I find it annoying when DSLR users downplay the M43 system as a worthless toy sensor and I also find it annoying when mirrorless users refer to the DSLR as an archaic dinosaur. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, but are both capable of taking great pictures in their respective forte.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  4. veereshai

    veereshai Mu-43 Top Veteran

    777
    May 12, 2011
    Arlington, VA
    I can understand what you guys are saying. But, what forces someone to go and justify their choices to others? Is it a case of insecurity because people want to believe "united we stand" and all that? Why are different choices so hard to digest?
     
  5. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    My answer is more confessional in nature.

    I'm not a great photography. I'm "good enough" for my family, but not great. I've got 100s of hours invested into learning my system (frankly, far more hours than I should have invested -- sometimes to the neglect of work and family!) and $1,000s into my system. If someone wants to do a thread of shots from another system that's one thing. I hope no ones complaining about that.

    But, there have been instances in the past where users of another system parachute in to m43 threads and proclaim why they love their system, or why it's better than m43 (usually based on sensor size). That creates doubt and introduces the potential for new rounds of analysis and gear churn.

    The more you understand what you want to shoot, the more comfortable you get with understanding the gear you need, and the less of a threat all this is. But if you haven't traveled that road yet, the idea of "needing" to analyze yet another systems can be a bit much.

    I do drop in on another system site (I won't mention which) and there are a lot of posts there about how much bigger the sensor is, and how they'd never touch m43, but if you compare the quality of photos that are being posted there vs. here, they are pretty much the same! Flowers, cars, empty fields, bugs, dogs and kids. If those users think the bigger sensor is doing it for them, then great! I just hope that wherever they are with a system, they are learning how to shoot, and what they like to shoot.
     
  6. blue

    blue Mu-43 Veteran

    280
    Jun 1, 2010
    UK
    It depends on the photographer. I am not "offended" by any camera, but then to me a camera is a hobby or interest, and I am interested in other gear too. For some it is all about status and point scoring, to prove that they are a bigger man than everyone else, and those are the ones that get so wound up about it because it threatens their rather fragile sense of self.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    Beats me. I have Nikon DSLRs because when I went to get a DSLR, Canon was out of stock. I got into M43 because I thought NEX lenses looked funny on their camera. :biggrin:
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. drd1135

    drd1135 Zen Snapshooter

    Mar 17, 2011
    Southwest Virginia
    Steve
    Most of us have to make real decisions about what to spend our money on. Since most buy online, you can't actually hold an E-M5, and XE-1, etc., and not everyone is comfortable with the "buy and try" approach. When you start to feel "gee, maybe I should have gone the other way" even a little bit, it's uncomfortable. It's also a completely normal level of insecurity which we all feel with many of life's decisions. If the case in question is the Fuji thread, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to have that thread in the "other cameras" forum. Many mu43 users think about switching and Fuji is a common choice. Where else would you put a thread for Mu43 users thinking about Fuji?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Nubster

    Nubster New to Mu-43

    9
    Feb 2, 2013
    I shoot an NEX-6 and I love it. I used to shoot a Nikon D300. I heavily considered offerings from Fuji and Olympus. Sure, once in awhile I wonder if I should have went with a different system or stuck with my D300. But I look at the pics I've taken over the past couple weeks of owning my NEX and I know the decision was right for me. The way I see it, once the pictures are posted or printed, you'll never know what camera took the shot, so who cares what camera was used. Just enjoy the art of photography.
     
  10. GaryAyala

    GaryAyala Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    SoCal
    I am not offended by Fuji. I haven't seen any hostile attitudes towards Fuji. But, (the big but), Fuji is not a µ4/3 format. Then again, there are other non-µ4/3 format threads on this forum.

    Gary

    PS- I haven't seen that Fuji or Sony had jaw-dropping IQ when compared to µ4/3. I am somewhat anxious to get my hands on one.
    G
     
  11. harry_s

    harry_s Mu-43 Regular

    180
    Jul 19, 2011
    Wiltshire, UK
    It's pretty common for people to defend/justify their choice, at the detriment to others. As a kid the playground wars were Sega vs Nintendo, it happens in so many areas but is still particularly bad with console gamers. '******ism', I believe is the common term these days.

    Take solace in the fact that this forum is remarkably level headed (and open in attitudes) compared to many others.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. veereshai

    veereshai Mu-43 Top Veteran

    777
    May 12, 2011
    Arlington, VA
    Thanks for making that last point WT21. I find it funny that we keep shooting the same things irrespective of the system :biggrin:. Are we as a community spending more time talking about cameras than making photographs then? Gives me an interesting idea/theme to try here :smile:.

    Agreed. I have been around the camera forums for a while now and I feel that the number of photographers talking and comparing systems has exploded in the past 4-5 years. May be you are right, people like to be identified by the cameras they use and hence the outrage at times?

    Lol, that's how I got into micro four thirds. NC (naturecloseups) had done a wonderful review of E-PL1 and I was happy that there was finally a camera system that can adapt almost every lens out there. When I came to the US, in the first week of my stay, I opened up craigslist. Saw an ad where someone was selling the G1 and 20mm lens, had no clue about it but just went and bought it. Didn't read a single review before I bought it. Probably the best decision I ever made :tongue:.

    Ah, yes, you bring up an excellent point too. Most of the camera choices these days are made online from user reviews. And may be folks who invested a lot of time feel the need to justify the choice and it's an effort to convince themselves more than trying to convince others?
     
  13. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    At this point I'm more dedicated to my lenses than anything else. I really could care less about my bodies nowadays. As long as I can slap a nice half case on my mirrorless camera and my Gordy strap, I'm set! :wink:

    If NEX, Fuji, Nikon 1 or the Canon M system had the same lens selection as my current kit and I could get get it at a cheaper price/size ratio I'd switch. At this point, M43 makes the most sense for my use. It's lens system is the best and the bodies are good enough. The Nikon 1 is the system that tempts me the most as it meets most my criteria outside of M43. If the V2 drops in price below $300 (my magic number), I'll consider it. :smile:
     
  14. veereshai

    veereshai Mu-43 Top Veteran

    777
    May 12, 2011
    Arlington, VA
    Gary,

    You should probably read couple of threads (Fuji X images thread and E-M5 vs Fuji X-E1) to spot the hostility :biggrin:. Again, I don't have a problem with hostility but curious to understand what drives someone to feel that way?

    As kids, I didn't have a lot of choice when it came to such things. If a friend had a sega and I had a different one, I'd be thrilled as we'd get to play and share without having to convince my parents to buy the other one :wink:.

    Yes, I do appreciate Amin and mods for creating an awesome environment that allows us to voice our opinions. And, it's probably one of the main reasons why I keep coming back to this forum. But, what annoys me the most is that a few participants in these forums tend to dictate things that "So and so camera should not be discussed here, this is a :43: site". I mean, the owner of the forum does not have a problem with it, I don't get why others should.
     
  15. GaryAyala

    GaryAyala Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    SoCal
    veereshai-

    I lived in Paris for a bit. My experiences were that Parisians hated Americans. After more observations, it came to me that Parisians just didn't hate Americans, they hated every non-Parisian. The Parisians were not singling out Americans and I think µ4/3 users are not solely anti-Fuji.

    Similar mentality at this forum. When I first arrived at µ4/3 I noticed this attitude of extreme defense of µ4/3. This was prior to the issuance of the premium lenses we enjoy today. I think it was a bit of wide-spread inferiority complex. Like parents defending their children which are not the brightest, fastest, tallest or best looking in the class.

    µ4/3 is maturing and the little ugly duckling is fast becoming this beautiful little swan. But old habits die hard. I see µ4/3 as a compromise camera. For those moving up from a P&S are defensive because they didn't make the jump to a dSLR. And those moving from a dSLR to a smaller camera didn't go all the way in smallness to a P&S. It takes a mature and open mind to appreciate the advantages of a compromise and to accept giving up things found in a less than compromise camera.

    Gary
     
    • Like Like x 11
  16. phrenic

    phrenic Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 13, 2010
    You do have to wonder why someone would feel such a burning desire to click on a thread about a camera system that offends them so much and feel the need to add in their 2 bits..
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. jloden

    jloden Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2012
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    This.

    There are a bunch of factors, but largely I think it just comes down to we are investing a ton of money in expensive equipment, and we want to think we made the best choice for our needs. It's uncomfortable at the very least when we suddenly think maybe we made the wrong call, or that something else might be better than our system at something.

    My way of dealing with it is twofold - first, I own multiple systems and use what I want when I want :smile: Second, I don't care what anybody else uses for the most part... as long as it's working for you and you're getting what you need, more power to you. I realized even before I tried any other systems that m4/3 didn't need to "win" and be the best camera for everybody. It's perfectly fine if it's just the best choice for one person but not another, and at the end of the day we just have more great options out there. Life is good, and it's a lot more relaxing without sweating about what other people spend their money on :biggrin:
     
    • Like Like x 4
  18. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    Here's my analogy:

    You are the E-M5. You and your wife are at a party. NEX is a dumpy looking middle aged guy talking to her loudly about sports as he balances a big plate of food in his hand. Fuji is the young, attractive guy with great hair and some sort of exotic accent who is leaning close and laughing with your wife in the corner of the room.

    Who is going to bug you more? NEX or Fuji?

    I can't make it any more clear than that. :)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    Haha, it's funny you mentioned this. My co-worker is from France (not from Paris) and he said the same thing about Parisians.
     
  20. ptolemyx

    ptolemyx Mu-43 Veteran

    290
    Jun 19, 2012
    Vancouver, BC
    Ben
    Sometimes I think the unending gear debate is a proxy for the insecurity that follows a pretense to photographic artistry; it's easier to claim merit by asserting the superiority of your tools than it is to submit your work as evidence of your skill.

    But then I think of the similarly unending debates that revolve around Windows vs. Mac, or Android vs. iOS--where there is no artistic merit at stake--and I wonder whether it's simply that people love to argue online. (I know, they do.)

    We bemoan the bickering because we're dismayed by its shallowness: as we continually remind ourselves, "Ansel Adams [etc] managed with less". But we all joined a forum dedicated first and foremost to the gear... so is it the gear that makes the community? And if so, is it any wonder we're always rumbling with those NEX geeks down the road or the Fuji losers up near the old mill?

    :)