Why all the anti M 4/3 bias?

Photorebel

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People that shoot kid photos at malls in their pre-set studios etc, consider themselves professional photographers.
Technically…they are professional photographers. If they are doing a job, which is pays their living expense, then they are professional. In my mind, professional does not mean..better, or mastery of the craft. Only that they are making a living taking photographs.
However, I have seen work by many "amateurs"..(those who don't make their living in photography) that just blows away..the work done by many "professionals. "
 

Photorebel

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All my professors were professional photographers plus I know many other professionals. All but three dismissed micro four thirds as junk and the three that don't, concider it a 'neat' amateur system.
That's the part that bothers me, people who have never used the system, dismissing it as a toy, or strictly amateur point and shoot system. If someone tests out the system, and doesn't like it, that's one thing. But don't knock it till you've tried it. I have read several blogs, portrait/wedding shooters..who love the micro system. Often it's not their only system, but they use it quite a bit for paid work.
 

OzRay

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Technically…they are professional photographers. If they are doing a job, which is pays their living expense, then they are professional. In my mind, professional does not mean..better, or mastery of the craft. Only that they are making a living taking photographs.
However, I have seen work by many "amateurs"..(those who don't make their living in photography) that just blows away..the work done by many "professionals. "
I'd consider mall photographer as professional as circus sideshows, shoot the ducks and the like. They are given their 'studio', lighting setup and how to position it, the camera a tripod and then it's all about spruiking to get those baby shots.

No disagreement about amateurs producing sensational photography; when you have absolute freedom, that's when you can shine. Doing it for a living, full time, can often mean losing that freedom. Been there, done that.
 

jasjb

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Not an olympus-specific issue.

  • If you've invested money in a system, you are most sensitive to the critisism.
  • I see fan-bois for every brand and system blindly defending it, rather than accepting every camera/system has good and bad use-cases.
 

RT_Panther

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I'd consider mall photographer as professional as circus sideshows, shoot the ducks and the like. They are given their 'studio', lighting setup and how to position it, the camera a tripod and then it's all about spruiking to get those baby shots.
Do you know what other shoots they do besides mall shoots? - That's a pretty strong statement that you've made...
 

OzRay

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Not an olympus-specific issue.

  • If you've invested money in a system, you are most sensitive to the critisism.
  • I see fan-bois for every brand and system blindly defending it, rather than accepting every camera/system has good and bad use-cases.
Buying camera gear is a sunk cost, not an investment. Unfortunately, many don't realise.
 

gr8Shot

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This thread reinforces something I have believed for a while: "Objective Photographer" is an oxymoron.
 

Mellow

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and this is the only small camera body with IBIS, if you really want to go small, the sony NEX is there, I have the NEX 5 sitting next to my P-EM2, and there's not much different in size. high end NEX use sony alpha flash system, the odin is there but it's very very expensive. Best system right now bars none is sony, if you have a ton of spare cash, they have some of the best lens and if you're willing to drop some serious dough, the radio flash system by odin is on par with canon.
Sorry, I don't have a clue what you're trying to say here.

NEX as small as PM2, OK I guess. But the GM1 is smaller than both. What's the point? There seems to be an implicit assumption that the NEX is superior in every other way--is that what you're trying to say? And what does this have to do with supposed anti-m43 bias (the subject of the thread)?

"Best system right now bar none is Sony"--really? I've got cameras from both systems (NEX, m43) and it's not even close--m43 is by far the best system. The NEX is a great body, but the lens selection for NEX is far inferior to m43. This strikes me as just another example of anti-m43 bias, but I can't be sure because I really don't understand the point of the post. Help me out here!
 

bhima

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I'd consider mall photographer as professional as circus sideshows, shoot the ducks and the like. They are given their 'studio', lighting setup and how to position it, the camera a tripod and then it's all about spruiking to get those baby shots.

No disagreement about amateurs producing sensational photography; when you have absolute freedom, that's when you can shine. Doing it for a living, full time, can often mean losing that freedom. Been there, done that.
I would argue that the hardest part of portrait photography is the photographer's ability to coax a natural smile, pose or whatever the subject matter requires out of the model. Lighting, especially in a studio is at worst an exercise in trial and error or at best, a few google clicks away and some test shots to get what you want. Getting the subject to behave or do what you want them to do in front of the camera requires the most experience and requires a totally different toolset of skills to be effective.
 

Photorebel

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This thread reinforces something I have believed for a while: "Objective Photographer" is an oxymoron.
I remember a joke.

Q:How many photographers does it take to make a photograph?
A: One hundred
One to take the photograph, and 99 to say.."I could have done it better" :biggrin:
 
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clockwork247

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Sorry, I don't have a clue what you're trying to say here.

NEX as small as PM2, OK I guess. But the GM1 is smaller than both. What's the point? There seems to be an implicit assumption that the NEX is superior in every other way--is that what you're trying to say? And what does this have to do with supposed anti-m43 bias (the subject of the thread)?

"Best system right now bar none is Sony"--really? I've got cameras from both systems (NEX, m43) and it's not even close--m43 is by far the best system. The NEX is a great body, but the lens selection for NEX is far inferior to m43. This strikes me as just another example of anti-m43 bias, but I can't be sure because I really don't understand the point of the post. Help me out here!
not talking much on the NEX system, but more so on the Alpha system... when you get into the alpha system it open up options on the NEX with adapter and AF. yes it's bigger than m4/3 but you get way more performance in terms of IQ and flash system. And don't get me started on m4/3 lens, it's way over price, they have less glass to make, and most of the lens body are plastic. You can't even adapt legacy on m4/3 properly because of the FL issue. Yes there's a place for m4/3 but it's not as "grand" as you guys make it out to be.

It's sad that olympus once was one of the best in terms of flash system have fallen so hard.
 

Listener

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The mirrorless ******s seem more aggressive in starting brawls than DSLR users on some forums I visit. For awhile, the m43 ******s seemed the worst. The arrival of the Sony A7 and A7r seems to have taken the wind out of their sails.

This forum has some of the same "flapping mirrors", "death of the DSLR", "DSLR buyers are stupid sheep" posts too.
 

T N Args

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Maybe someone cross posted this thread into one of the feral forums, encouraging high pollution levels onto mu-43. There are several low-post-count contributors on this page....
 

silver92b

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Are you suggesting that an A7 or A7r with a 35mm lens, via cropping, can achieve a more detailed and sharper result of a distant subject than you can with a 300mm (600mm Sony equiv) and m4/3 camera? If so, Sony users can clearly make do with maybe one or two lenses and cover every possible subject on the planet. And for off-planet work, they may only need a 100mm or so lens.
Actually, I think so... I was shocked when my friend showed me a sharp little shot of a cluster of street signs in the camera screen. I thought nothing of it and then he zoomed out and they were very far away, almost invisible at the far end of the background of a cityscape. It was shocking! I sold my PL100-300mm after that... I am actually thinking of getting one of those cameras, although I know that just having the ability to take very sharp photos and low light photos with ease, will not make me a better photographer. Also, the number of keepers is much higher with the EM5 and EP5. Sony does not have anything like the image stabilization of the Olympus M43 cameras...
 

silver92b

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A7r with a 36MP sensor does provide some advantages in IQ and DOF against my E-P5 or the E-PL1. But in order to gain the upper hand in terms of IQ, you need to shoot extra careful with extra care by needing to ensure the mount alignment on the body and lens are perfect or close to, shutter and mirror shock are removed (yes they exist on both A7r and D800/e) by employing anti-shock measures or using mirror lock-up or even shooting multiple frames of the same subject as well as very heavy dampened tripods -- Linhof is a good start just to get tack sharp images. If you start cropping it and then enlarging the final output, you'll see more blur, blur that came from camera movement, subject movement caused by wind blowing the flowers, leaves, grass etc that you would otherwise not see or be obscured if you hadn't cropped and magnify.., Vibration from shutter or mirror on a DSLR and resonance generated from light and medium duty tripods are very real and a problem with sensors approaching medium format. The A7r does not even have IBIS and not all lenses have VR built-in either. I know and see a lot of D800 users gave up using the camera because the requirements getting tack sharp images are simply beyond the patience of these people. They lack discipline and desire to be perfect and you have to be anal about it-- more so than shooting with an E-M1 or M5 or P5. They thought the math with 36MP would work out in their favor. Little do they know what surprises and frustrations they encounter as they tried and failed to achieve perfection.
Excellent post, I wish I could have written it. Yes, those Sony cameras can produce amazing shots, but it's not easy to do... The M43 IBIS system allows me to shoot far more keepers than my friend (ex M43 shooter) can do with the Sony.
 

T N Args

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Actually, I think so... I was shocked when my friend showed me a sharp little shot of a cluster of street signs in the camera screen. I thought nothing of it and then he zoomed out and they were very far away, almost invisible at the far end of the background of a cityscape. It was shocking! I sold my PL100-300mm after that...
Perhaps you should have got it repaired (the 100-300), or improved your technique to the level of your friend... :smile:

Seriously, if you had the lenses swapped and the long tele was on the Sony and the 35 on the µ4/3, you would have got the result reversed if the technique wasn't right on the long tele.

I am actually thinking of getting one of those cameras, although I know that just having the ability to take very sharp photos and low light photos with ease, will not make me a better photographer.
Save some money, start with a tripod.... and practice technique on long tele shots..... changing cameras is completely the wrong solution to what happened there.
 

mattia

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Actually, I think so... I was shocked when my friend showed me a sharp little shot of a cluster of street signs in the camera screen. I thought nothing of it and then he zoomed out and they were very far away, almost invisible at the far end of the background of a cityscape. It was shocking! I sold my PL100-300mm after that... I am actually thinking of getting one of those cameras, although I know that just having the ability to take very sharp photos and low light photos with ease, will not make me a better photographer. Also, the number of keepers is much higher with the EM5 and EP5. Sony does not have anything like the image stabilization of the Olympus M43 cameras...
While the A7r resolution is impressive, it's not capable of the same quality as the 100-300 with that level of cropping. Not for printing. And the ability to take sharp photos - yes, but with much less ease than your MFT system. Same goes for lower light/high ISO in a lot if situations where you will be forced to use a higher ISO than you might want to prevent blur. Leith an unstabilised lens like the amazing 55/1.8, you'll want to keep the shutter speed above 1/100 to make sure things are perfectly sharp. I get decent results at 1/60, but the very high resolution places extreme demands on technique.

That said, I find it a perfect companion to the E-M1. Amazing files. Great glass. Just more demanding, slower to shoot (slower operation, start up, autofocus...), forcing me to be more deliberate.
 
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