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Which system in addition to m43?

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by SojiOkita, Oct 6, 2017.

  1. SojiOkita

    SojiOkita Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 23, 2014
    Hello everyone.

    I'm using micro four thirds from early 2014. I came from Canon APS and never uses it anymore now (without any regrets).
    I like the compactness of the system (my main camera is the E-M10) and the image quality I get.

    I've still have a lot of m43 gear I want to buy (addiction...), like the E-M1 mkII, and as it is quite expensive, I was wondering if it may me more interesting for me to buy another camera from a second system with a bigger sensor...
    (I would keep m43 as my principal system)

    The idea would be to buy a body + maybe 2 primes to have something still quite compact, but with an bigger dynamic range, ISO performance and higher depth of field control.
    My favourite focal length is 50 mm, and then 20 mm / 35 mm / 85 mm (all in 24x36 equivalence).
    What I'd like:
    - fast AF with focus points all over the image (and maybe face/eye recognition)
    - good MF assist
    - good image quality / dynamic range
    - fast aperture (better that what I can have in m43)
    I would use it mostly for portraits (85) / environmental portraits (35-50) / and a little landscapes (20 - 35).

    I made some quick research and wasn't fully convinced by what I found...
    Fuji have some nice lenses but except for the 56 f/1.2 which seems quite impressive, the gain in terms of depth-of-field (and dynamic range) will probably be marginal.
    Sony has impressive sensors but most of the lenses are huge (like the 35 mm f/1.4). The 55 f/1.8 seems reasonably compact (but I'd prefer 50 mm), and so is the 85 mm f/1.8 (seems similar to 42.5 f/1.2)

    Does anybody has any idea of what could make it?
    This has to be compared to the possibility would to buy one (or two) pro prime(s) for m43 (like 17 f/1.2 - 25 f/1.2 - 42.5 or 45 f/1.2).
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  2. Aperture Don

    Aperture Don Mu-43 Veteran

    Jan 7, 2017
    Be more specific. You say that your favorite focal length is 50mm. If so, that's 100mm equivalent field of view on M4/3 vs. full frame. I shoot Nikon FF, and I like 50mm as well, but on M4/3, that's a 25mm lens to get the equivalent field of view.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  3. dirtdevil

    dirtdevil Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Apr 9, 2017
    For the depth of field, you can always buy lenses made for a full frame system and use a focal reducer on your m43 camera (not just a dumb adapter ring, it needs to have the glass to modify the field of view). It will give you a field of view that is between APS-C and a FF camera.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. SojiOkita

    SojiOkita Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 23, 2014
    I've edited my post. The focal lentghs I gave are 24x36 equivalent. So, in m43: 25 mm first, then 10 - 17.5 - 42.5.
    To be more specific. If I have to go with one prime: I'd take a 50 mm (24x36 eq.). With 2 primes: 35 + 85 mm (24x36 eq.).
  5. SojiOkita

    SojiOkita Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 23, 2014
    And the AF would be as good as if used on the native system?
    I don't like much MF for portraits.

    ISO performance is also welcome.
    IBIS is mostly useless for portraits, if you want to freeze the movements (I'm not talking about sports).
  6. retiredfromlife

    retiredfromlife Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2016
    Sydney, Australia
    I would go for the Fuji X-T2, love the manual dials and get one with a manual aperture lens as well. Would sit really well next to a Pen F.
    While not owning one the build quality looks really good. The rear LCD screen is great the way it tilts, nice option for mechanical shutter release as well as electronic one. Lenses maybe expensive but from what I have seen in reviews very good quality, but the bodies seem to be a good price compared the flagship Mu-43's
  7. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    I've flirted with both Fuji and Sony FF but in reality they offered little over u43 and none offered things I've come to love and appreciate. It's always nice to play the field, but coming home to your own bed has a certain satisfaction!
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  8. The last thing I'd want to do after going smaller with the u43 is bulking up again with cropped or FF sensor equipment.

    After being on this forum I can clearly see it is my lack of skills that keeps me from producing top notch photos... not from the equipment available in u43. I'm slowly (or not) acquiring a tidy collection of Oly Pro glass and can't say enough about it's quality. Some time soon I hope my skill set will do it justice. One only needs to hone in on one or two of the masters of the micro here at mu-43 in each or any of the genres in which you want to improve your own skills.

    As per the OP's question I actually thought he was gong to be asking about which additional system to compliment his u43 kit. And for that I would have actually suggested smaller... ie maybe a sony mx3-100 that several of my Oly photo buddies have. While they use their em5mkii's for most of their work they also carry around (at all times) their little Sony P&S... and in many cases I can't differentiate, without pixel peeping, the difference between the two formats. That or something like it will probably be my next purchase as I can see on trips it would make a great little pocketable totable nighttime or street camera... especially in areas where carrying a larger camera with Pro lens is perhaps not wise.
  9. TheMenWhoDrawSheeps

    TheMenWhoDrawSheeps Mu-43 Veteran

    Jun 15, 2016
    Problem is - going FF with all the lenses is quite an investment. I would probably like to get Used A7ii to mount legacy glass, like 28mm f2, 50mm f1.2/1.4, 80mm f1.4. If i would like to go wholebokehwhore there are even 50mm/75mm f0.95.
    problem is those are all manual or expensive options, sometimes even both, so i might as well get the whole Voigtländer f0.95 lineup(or cheaper alternatives) with little to none difference in DOF.
    So my FF urge is getting smaller and smaller. the only lens, that has no cheaper alternatives or cannot been replicated is 17mm f0.95.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. retiredfromlife

    retiredfromlife Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2016
    Sydney, Australia
    I think your last sentance "especially in areas where carrying a larger camera with Pro lens is perhaps not wise."
    is a very good as there are a lot of places where snatch and grab is increasing in the so called third world countries I like to go to.
  11. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    It's a really hard question.

    Getting significantly better AF than M4/3 while also getting significantly better DoF capabilities and dynamic range means likely nothing less than a Sony A7r II. But that is a $3000 camera, with lens prices to match.

    If you are able to tolerate a DSLR, then the Nikon D750 would suit your purposes. However, using manual focus lenses on a DSLR is a bad experience.

    Fuji and Sony APS-C systems are good, and the A6300 / A6500 in particular would offer you better autofocus. But Sony's APS-C lens options are weak. And Fuji does not really offer better dynamic range than the 20MP M4/3 sensors. And it has significant issues with RAW image processing that you may or may not have the patience to work around.

    So there is no easy answer.
  12. retiredfromlife

    retiredfromlife Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2016
    Sydney, Australia
    That's why I will probably stick with Mu-43, fairly good compromise for a complex choice.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. dirtdevil

    dirtdevil Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Apr 9, 2017
    Hmm lots of recalls of the Nikon D750 I heard.
  14. SojiOkita

    SojiOkita Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 23, 2014
    I may come to the same conclusion... but I think I'll have to experiment it myself to be sure...

    If I try it, I'll probably buy a used body & lens to be able to sell it afterwards if I don't like it without losing too much money.
    Renting would be smart if it wasn't so expensive.

    I already have smaller: I have a GM5 and pancake lenses.
    It's very small compared to the quality of the images it can produce, but not small enough to be carried everywhere.
    I came to the conclusion that when I really need a small camera, I have to use my phone... it can takes decent DNG pictures when there is enough light, and I have it with my nearly all the time (even if I go for a run... I can take it with me).
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  15. SojiOkita

    SojiOkita Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 23, 2014
    Is there so much difference between the A7 II and the A7R II?

    I kind of like the advantages of mirrorless cameras... would be difficult to get back to DLSR, even if there are some nice advantages too (more lens choices, and probably cheaper).
    The bodies are also significantly bigger.
  16. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    That's a great idea and is exactly what I did. In fact I actually made a small profit on the XE1 I bought. No amount of wise words, even from people with an opinion worth having, is a substitute for trying it yourself!
    • Like Like x 1
  17. fader

    fader Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Aug 20, 2016
    Brest, France
    camera systems are really all about the lenses. If there's not a lens you're lusting after, stick with m43. For fun - rent a canon 5D Mk II and a 70-200 2.8L and spend a weekend with it. superb image quality. good handling. amazing files. feels like lugging a water buffalo around.
    • Funny Funny x 1
  18. Reflector

    Reflector Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 31, 2013
    Buy a Speedbooster. Now you'll have Micro Four Thirds and APS-C of the 1.4x (Which is bigger than your Canon's 1.6x) variety. Don't believe me? Buy a focal reducer and stare at the sensor with it mounted on. What appears is a larger sensor* that receives a lot more light. Now you have two systems and if you get an E-M1II then any Canon glass you have left will AF.

    *Imaginary big, close enough. Just like perceptual megapixels and DxOmarks, it means nothing.

    Have a poorly illustrated example of what I mean with transparency and a misaligned shot
    Transparency Wizardry.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. DynaSport

    DynaSport Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 5, 2013
    I am often bitten by the FF bug. As much as I love m43, I just don't believe they are up to the quality of the latest group of 30-50 megapixel full frame cameras. In fact last night I priced out Nikon, Canon, and Sony FF cameras and their respective 70-200 2.8 lenses with VR, IS, or OSS. The results were all in the $5200-5800 range. Of course, they have cheaper, older models available as well.

    Then I priced out the flagship m44 cameras and equivalent zooms. The prices were about $3000-3200.

    The size of the FF gear would make it a specialized, limited use kit for me, but what it can produce is fantastic.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. lookmore

    lookmore Mu-43 Regular

    Aug 15, 2016
    I went from APC-C DSLRs to µ43 years ago. Then picked up a used 5D (mark1) for when I really want to fill my hands with something bigger... however I didn't invest much in lenses (just a Tamron zoom and a nifty fifty). I mainly use the Tamron and apart from that I use the 5D to check old film glass (have lots of M42 stuff that I want to sell as I never use it). Still 95% of my photos come from the µ43 system, that 5D is so darn heavy... I wouldn't (or couldn't) run around with a complete kit built around this system.
    • Informative Informative x 1
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