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Which EM-5 Kit?

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by DizzyV6P, Apr 13, 2012.

  1. DizzyV6P

    DizzyV6P Mu-43 Regular

    141
    Apr 13, 2012
    Maryland
    I'm new on this site and I've gotta complement you all on a great forum. I guess my days on Canon POTN are numbered now. After spending 10 days in Disney World lugging around my Canon 40D, Tamron 17-50 f/2.8, 580 EX I flash and 85 f/1.8 and pushing a dual stroller (city mini double), I've decided that I need to lighten my load (I didn't even bring the 50 f/1.8 and 70-200 f/4L on this trip either!!).

    Sorry Canon, its been a great run and although I love your system and lenses, I love my back more. In addition, when I found myself taking more pictures w/ my iPhone 4 than my beloved 40D and I knew it was time to jump ship.

    After spending the past few weeks looking at the Nikon V1, E-P3, LX-1 and Nex-7, I was moments away from pushing the button on the BH Photo E-P3 Street Shooters kit, you guys start posting up pictures of the E-M5 and how it compares in size.

    I went into to stores to try out the sizes. The V1 was nice but I can't justify paying $800 for that small a sensor size. Many of my photographs are blown up to 8x10's, 11x16's and even canvas size in some cases. I loved the portability but hated the lack of lenses.

    I wanted to love the Nex-5N and Nex-7. On paper and on all the reviews, it sounded like the perfect camera. I was dead set on the Nex-7 until I held the 5N in my hand. Then I looked at the 18-55 kit lens that was about the same size of my Tamron 17-50 f/2.8. I thought to myself....how does this lighten my load??? It doesn't. After fiddling around with it some more and comparing it with the V1 and PL3 (Ritz didn't have an E-p3 for me to handle, I figured the PL3 would be a close enough substitute), the Nex-7 (slightly bigger than the 5N) wasn't in the cards. Small body +big APS-C sensors = same size lenses as my Canon system which ruins my plan to lighten my load.

    The PL3 and presumably the E-P3 felt just right. With the 14-42 lens it was even lighter and very easy to handle. Size wise, it was perfect. Add in the slightly longer E-p3 w/ the handle and its perfect for my needs. I was going to take advantage of BH Photo's street shooter package which includes the E-P3, EVF-3, 14-42 and 12 f/2.0, camera bag for $1499 until I saw the comparison pictures of the EM-5. What I saw was an upgraded E-P3 w/ LVF-3 built in AND a tilting screen with not much size difference. PERFECT. Ok, there's the little "jello" effect on the E-p3, but I'm not usually jerking my camera from side to side or panning that fast to catch fighter jets at air shows so I'm not worried about this problem. I just hope the E-M5 doesn't have the same issue in case I do end up chasing F-18's someday.

    I know, I know, everyone else here already knew this but since I'm new to the :43: system gimmer a break :biggrin:

    So now I'm stuck with a decision. Go with the 14-42 kit or the 12-50 kit? I'm tempted to hold out for a low light zoom in the future though. What other low light prime would you recommend besides the 12 f/2.0? Steve Huff has some fabulous pictures with that lens which is what pointed me towards the street shooters kit and probably the only way I'd be able to sneak a $800 past my wife! The 14-42 kit would retain the compactness for me. Based on reviews of the 12-50, it doesn't seem to improve much more than the 14-42 but does add more bulk and price.

    Should I wait to see if there are any good Mother's day sales? At least on the E-P3, I'm expecting some sales, but since the E-M5 is new I know there won't be a sale on this for awhile.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Dizzy
     
  2. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    Just a couple things I will point out about this paragraph... 1) Yes, the Jello effect seems to have been fixed in the E-M5. I don't have the camera nor have I ever suffered from this problem, but I have seen the video evidence and the difference between the two is very substantial (if you pan like crazy, as you say). The E-M5 also has 5-axis IS which works in video (as well as stills), which is a first for anyone.
    2) The E-P3 (which is the size of the E-M5 except for the top hump) is not just longer than the E-PL3, it's also a lot thicker. This makes it feel much better in your hands when actually shooting, but the E-PL3 (like the E-PM1) save a lot of extra space in the bag. The E-P3 is still very compact irregardless, and is a beautiful balance between handling and packing. The E-M5 gives you even more on the handling side of things.

    I assume you mean the m.Zuiko 12-50mm f/3.5-6.3 when you say 17-50? I agree that you should get a low-light zoom instead, but you don't really have to wait for one. Just pick up the MMF-3 mount adapter, and get the Zuiko 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 II for Four-Thirds mount. That is a weather sealed lens (like the 12-50mm), is very compact for its class, is obviously much faster (lens speed wise, for low light and action) than the 12-50mm, and is also weather sealed like the 12-50mm. The MMF-3 is a weather sealed adapter, which will allow you to use all the sealed Zuiko lenses from the Four-Thirds collection, which include some of the fastest zoom lenses in the world (like constant f/2 aperture zooms from 14mm to 100mm). Any Zuiko lens from the High Grade to Super High Grade category are fully weather sealed to go with a sealed system like the OM-D or the pro-grade E-System DSLRs (Olympus E-1, E-3, and E-5). The Super High Grade zooms (like say the Zuiko 14-35mm f/2, Zuiko 35-100mm f/2, or Zuiko 90-250mm f/2.8) are rather large and expensive and not the best fit for a Non-Reflex camera. The High-Grade category on the other hand, uses variable apertures to retain sharpness and relatively fast speeds while keeping the lenses compact and affordable. Most of the High Grade zoom lenses use the f/2.8-3.5 aperture, which just loses half a stop on the long end. The Zuiko 14-54mm II (the Mark II part is important) is CDAF optimized and is therefore the best choice in the fast zooms for use on a Micro Four-Thirds system. The problem with Four-Thirds lenses is that they are made for the PDAF system of a DSLR and are therefore slower to Autofocus on a PEN or OM-D camera. The CDAF-optimized lenses are better, but except for the 14-54mm II most of them are slower Standard Grade lenses (of which you can get native lens equivalents instead).

    The Autofocus on the Zuiko 14-54mm f/2.8-3.5 II will be significantly slower than a native lens like the m.Zuiko 12-50mm f/3.5-6.3, but significantly faster than other Four-Thirds fast zooms. I don't know your exact requirement for fast Autofocus, but to me lens speed is far more important. We used to get great photos before Autofocus existed, but we've always needed lens speed to capture low light and action.

    If you need a fast super telephoto, I would recommend the Zuiko 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 SWD, which is a killer sharp lens with relatively fast speed but is still easy to hand-hold. It is not CDAF optimized though, so is better used with Manual Focus.

    Otherwise, if you want a fast zoom but also need it to have blazing fast Autofocus, then wait till later this year when the Panasonic Lumix X 12-35mm f/2.8 and Lumix X 35-100mm f/2.8 lenses are released. I don't think these lenses will be weather sealed though (unless somebody can prove otherwise), so if you need a weather sealed system then pick up the MMF-3 now. Incidentally, a couple other lenses coming later this year are the m.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8 and the m.Zuiko 60mm f/2.8 Macro. The Macro lens will be weather sealed, but the 75mm will not (it will however, be built all-metal like the m.Zuiko 12mm f/2). These lenses actually have working prototypes being used, so I would expect to see them sooner than the Lumix X fast zooms.

    For prime lenses in the wide to standard focal lengths (ie, not Telephoto), you're best to stick with native Micro Four-Thirds lenses because the selection in that lineup is awesome! The m.Zuiko 12mm f/2 you mentioned is very good, as well as its longer cousin the m.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8. Those two make a fabulous pair which will replace the need for a standard fast zoom. If you were for example thinking of getting the Lumix X 12-35mm f/2.8, how about start with these two primes instead? When the Lumix X lens finally arrives, you may find that you don't even want it anymore. xD

    Another general-purpose lens which fits nicely in between is the Leica 25mm f/1.4 Summilux. This is a beautiful fast lens in a very useful focal length for Four-Thirds systems. If you have the 12mm and 45mm then this would fill the gap in between if you feel you need to, but if you were to get just one lens then this one is more of a general-purpose length.

    Or if you want the thinnest DOF and amazing quality, try the Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 Nokton. Super fast and well-built, but only manual focus. The Leica Summilux on the other hand, still retains Autofocus if that's important to you.
     
  3. lowincash

    lowincash Mu-43 Regular

    126
    Mar 6, 2012
    Los Angeles
    Dizzy from V6P? This is lowincash from v6p haha

    Anyways Ned already answered a bunch :D I think if you want a lighter load go for the 14-42mm kit and maybe throw in a fast prime for low light. I originally ordered just the body but then decided to throw in the 12-50mm kit lens so I can have a fully weather sealed kit just in case. Plus now I have a 12mm FL and don't need to spend $$$ on the 12 f2, even though that's a very super lens.

    I had the E-P3 for a little bit and it's a great camera. VERY fast AF and nice looking too. I also had the NEX-7 since December last year and recently sold it to get the E-M5. It was good but AF performance, especially in low light, was nowhere as good as the E-P3, which was kind of disappointing because I really liked the 7.
     
  4. DizzyV6P

    DizzyV6P Mu-43 Regular

    141
    Apr 13, 2012
    Maryland
    Lowincash? HAHAHAHA! Small world! Yes, we have V6P members in almost all the forums for every camera! :rofl: LOL. I'm about to start a new Mirrorless Camera pictures forum over there so be sure to post up your samples. Nex-7? Damn, I would have bought that from you and probably have sold it for the E-M5 as well..LOL. I need the fast AF. The only one that could give the E-P3 a run for its money is the Nikon V1 w/ its hybrid PADF/CADF system but I just spend that amount of $$$ for that sensor. I fully expect Nikon to drop their prices considering add $100 you can get an E-M5 w/ a 14-42 lens.

    Thanks you for the great advice Ned!

    I have the 50 f/1.8 and 85 f/1.8 from my Canon system. Should I just keep these two lenses and grab an adaptor? Heck, in theory, I could keep my 70-200 f/4L as well. Hmm....any thoughts? I'm taking a hit selling the 50 and 85 so if I need a decent prime these two could cover it...except I'll have to manually focus.
     
  5. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    Dizzy, I would go with the 12-50 for times like you mentioned in your first post. You're at Disney, or wherever, the weather doesn't cooperate. With the E-M5/12-50 you don't have to sweat it. I'd consider going with the Panny 14/2.5 instead of the Oly 12/2 if you need to stay within a budget.

    You'll be able to replace your Canon primes, but the 70-200 is one you'll just have to walk away from. A 35-100 is coming, but the Canon is a special lens.

    Welcome aboard!
     
  6. DizzyV6P

    DizzyV6P Mu-43 Regular

    141
    Apr 13, 2012
    Maryland
    Thanks. I'm selling the 70-200. It's pretty hefty and it has to go but I'm going to miss it. I bought it in hopes that my daughter would continue playing soccer, but she lost interest and likes ballet instead...hence the 85 f/1.8 purchase. So I have no need for a long outdoor zoom anymore. The 35-100 looks perfect. How is the 40-150? Olympus is having a sale where its $199 if you purchase a camera from their estore.
     
  7. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    Unfortunately, because of the high-powered electronic requirements of the Canon EOS system, it needs a special adapter to fully operate it properly. Redrock and Berger both make one, for about $400 apiece. There are also other versions for about $150 apiece which use a new aperture in the adapter, rather than using the real aperture of the lens. Kipon and Bower have versions of this type.

    Personally, for the lenses you have I don't think I would bother with a Canon EOS adapter. The 50mm f/1.8 is simply not worth adapting as there are much better Micro Four-Thirds lenses for as much as the adapter, as well as better legacy fast-fifties which you can buy for peanuts (okay, that's an exaggeration - you'd probably have to break out the almonds and cashews).

    If you had say the 85mm f/1.2 and the 70-200mm f/2.8, or if you had a much larger collection of lenses, then I'd say go for it. With the 85mm f/1.8 and 70-200mm f/4, I think it would be better to start off with new lenses but would still consider the option of keeping and adapting them.

    The 85mm f/1.8 would not be a bad one to adapt but you could also get the faster Samyang/Rokinon 85mm f/1.4 for Four-Thirds mount for cheap (like $300 or less), or a large variety of similar legacy lenses (the Samyang is a manual lens anyways). The Samyang will require a Four-Thirds mount adapter which will cost about $180 (you may as well get the new weather-sealed MMF-3 to match your weather sealed E-M5), but this adapter will have full electronics like the $400 EOS adapters (for use with the non-manual Four-Thirds lenses, of course). If you go with legacy lenses however, then the adapter could cost you $15-$20 and the lens could be less than a couple hundred.

    If you adapt your EOS lenses with the expensive adapter, they will have the auto-diaphragm but they will still be manual focus. If you're going to get a manual focus lens, it's generally better to get one that was originally made for manual focus.

    Which brings us to a replacement for the 70-200mm f/4L... You could easily replace that lens with the faster and sharper Zuiko 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 SWD for Four-Thirds mount. However, both lenses are in the same retail price range so you may or may not lose money on the exchange. The Zuiko has more wide angle, faster aperture (1 stop to half a stop, depending on focal length), and amazing resolving power... but it's not THAT much better than the Canon f/4L lens. It depends a lot on how much money you'll lose selling the lens used, and what kind of a deal you could get on the Zuiko lens (probably get that used as well?). The adapter for the EOS lens is $250 more than the one for the Zuiko lens, so take that into account as well.

    Of course... as mentioned earlier the MMF-3 will also give you access to a fully weather sealed kit for your E-M5 using Zuiko Digital lenses from the Four-Thirds lineup. That might also affect your decision to keep the Canon lenses or not...

    Another option too for the 200mm, would be to get a 200mm f/4 prime lens. This will be WAY smaller and more compact than your 70-200mm f/4L, and have the same speed and reach. You just won't be able to back out of the 200mm reach without using your feet. These lightweight primes are wonderfully easy to handle on a compact Micro Four-Thirds body.

    Or you could also get a 135mm f/2.8 along with a 1.4x teleconverter. That will give you a 200mm f/4, but can be broken down to give you two lenses in one as well.

    My Zuiko 200mm f/4 was one of my favorites for the PEN system, but I eventually replaced it with the Zeiss 135mm f/2.8 and Olympus EC-14 teleconverter, not because the Zeiss is better than the Zuiko (though it's certainly more expensive, lol), but because I like having the two lenses in one.

    zeiss_sonnar_135mm_2,8_web.

    I do use the Zuiko 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 on my PEN cameras all the time (especially in the studio), but it hardly ever goes out with me anymore. Instead, I always take out the much smaller 200mm f/4 or 135mm f/2.8.

    I take my Zeiss out to sporting events, and honestly although I'm stuck with Manual Focus I actually prefer it over the DSLR with a bulky zoom lens like the Zuiko 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5. It's so easy to haul the thing around and follow all the action with such a lightweight package, that I'll gladly give up Autofocus just for that. Of course, you need to have a good EVF to manually focus action shots.
     
  8. songs2001

    songs2001 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    693
    Jul 8, 2011
    If getting the a Samyang, get the Nikon mount and use the Nikon to M43 adapter, rather than using the Four Thirds adapter.

    There is no size difference between the Four Thirds versions and the Nikon versions.

    The Nikon mounts will have better resale value and easier to reuse if switching to Nex or other mirrorless.
     
  9. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    The 40-150 is a great value lens, but won't get the job done for ballet performances.

    The 85/1.8 is actually tough to replace as well, unless you go manual focus.

    I have a 7 yr old daughter. I've downsized my Canon kit for :43: investment, but decided to keep my 40D and three lenses to shoot things like performances and sporting activities. Hard to match some of that with :43:.
     
  10. DizzyV6P

    DizzyV6P Mu-43 Regular

    141
    Apr 13, 2012
    Maryland
    Thank you for all the suggestions. It certainly helps take the sting out of getting rid of everything labeled Canon.

    Any speculation on any possible sales or deals on the E-M5? I'm wondering whether I should buy now or wait till Mother's Day sales start since its traditionally a holiday that many camera manufacturers sell a lot of red and pink cameras..LOL.

    I found this on the Olympus Store site.

    https://us.buyolympus.com/digital-c..._campaign=NEWEM5&utm_content=NEWEM5_billboard

    Looks like I could get a free flash, mmf-3 4/3's adaptor or MF-2 OM lens adaptor. Throw in $200 for the cheap zoom as well? or save it for a better zoom?
     
  11. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Dara
    I'd expect deals on the Pens, but not the E-M5. It's quite new and has achieved a lot of interest. It will take them several months before supply equals demand, let alone exceeds.

    The 40-150 is good, but a bit slow. $200 isn't that special though - you can get a refurbed one for $150. The MMF-3 is probably the most useful item - either for 4/3 lenses, or to sell. The MF-2 can be easily replaced with a $20 adapter from eBay with no loss. The flash is okay, but fairly weak in terms of power (GN=28 at ISO 200).

    DH
     
  12. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    Get the MMF-3! The FL-300R I wouldn't bother with... now if they threw in the FL-600R, that's a fine flash unit.

    As for the 40-150mm f/4-5.6... that's a tough call. It's a fine super-compact little mid-range lens. It's like an extension of the 14-42mm kit lens - just as light, just as sharp, just as slow. It's handy, but there are so many better lenses you could have as well. I had one of these for the Four-Thirds system, and sold it shortly after for less than I bought it for - to the person I bought it from, lol. For me, I simply can't keep those slower lenses around as I always want something faster.

    Of course the Zuiko 50-200mm f/2.8-3.5 is a much better lens in that range, but I also found that the Zuiko 70-300mm f/4-5.6, which is a very affordable and lightweight lens, to be a much better performer in the 70-150mm range, making the 40-150mm redundant. The 70-300mm is faster (f/4.5 vs f/5.6 at 150mm), wonderfully sharp under 200mm (gets a little softer from 200mm-300mm), and also has twice the reach beyond 150mm as well as 1:2 tele-macro capabilities.

    In other words, I found that I preferred using the super-telephoto at its wider end rather than having a dedicated mid-telephoto lens. For Micro Four-Thirds, you can still use the 70-300mm (it is CDAF compatible), but you also have the option of the m.Zuiko 75-300mm and Lumix 100-300mm. Out of those three lenses though, only the Zuiko 70-300mm (for Four-Thirds) has tele-macro capabilities at 300mm (1:2 macro with a healthy 3' working distance). The autofocus on that lens does leave something to be desired... not because you're using it on a Micro Four-Thirds camera, but because it always had a tendency to hunt even on its native mount.
     
  13. bongestrella

    bongestrella Mu-43 Veteran

    404
    Sep 2, 2011
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    To the OP, without considering anything else, if you think a 5n with its kit lens does not lighten your load, I fail to understand how any m43 camera + 14-54 + adapter will. Really, only a retractable kitlens and/or a bunch of prime lenses will do.
     
  14. DizzyV6P

    DizzyV6P Mu-43 Regular

    141
    Apr 13, 2012
    Maryland
    That's a good point. Looking at the camera size chart, a E-M5 w/ the 12-50 lens is about the same size as the Nex-7 w/ kit lens. Unless I order the E-M5 w/ the 14-42 lens and a few nice pancake lenses, I might be tempted to grab the Nex-7 instead except for the fact that it really doesn't have any small lenses. Except for the 12-50, the rest of the lenses tend to be smaller and lighter than anything Sony could push out.
     
  15. lowincash

    lowincash Mu-43 Regular

    126
    Mar 6, 2012
    Los Angeles

    Hey Dizzy, the NEX-7 is a really great camera too. I had it with the Zeiss 24mm lens and it was an absolute awesome combo. It wasn't too big either and all in all felt great to hold in the hand.

    That combo is a great performer but low light it performance was a bit disappointing. In a dimly lit restaurant I could not lock focus at all, and when it did it would focus on the background. Before the NEX-7 I had the Olympus E-P3 with the 20mm f1.7 lens and I had no trouble locking focus in the same restaurant albeit slowly. This was the major reason why I came back to the m43 cameras. I only wish I can afford to keep both camera systems lol

    Both cameras are great and I think the NEX system will slowly have more lenses available. So yeah good luck with your choice :D
     
  16. Bamamike

    Bamamike Mu-43 Regular

    30
    Mar 19, 2012
    Koblenz, Germany
    A must is the 20mm Pana prime f1.7. This is an awesome lens with a great IQ.
    With 12 - 20 - 45 and 75mm you have the perfect lineup with primes and if you want to go low cost you can add the Sigma 30mm 2.8.
    Cheers,
    Mike
     
  17. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    You know... for $100 cheaper than the NEX-7 + Zeiss 24mm f/1.8, you could buy an OM-D E-M5 with Voigtlander 25mm f/0.95 Nokton. Now how's that for a low-light combo? ;)

    Of course, the the E-M5 won't "lock focus" any better in this case since the Voigtlander is manual focus, but looking through that bright aperture you should be able to focus for yourself.

    Or, for $500 dollars cheaper than the NEX-7 + Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 kit, you could get an E-M5 plus Leica 25mm f/1.4 Summilux. There's a great low-light combo WITH autofocus.

    I personally find the NEX-7 hard to justify... ;)
     
  18. lowincash

    lowincash Mu-43 Regular

    126
    Mar 6, 2012
    Los Angeles
    lol the 25/0.95 would be nice but I don't think I'm going to spend that much on a lens anymore. The 25/1.4 I would buy for low light, just gotta find somewhere that has it in stock :D

    btw it's a 24/1.8 =P
     
  19. DizzyV6P

    DizzyV6P Mu-43 Regular

    141
    Apr 13, 2012
    Maryland
    Naw. I'll be sticking with an E-M5, 12-50, 40-150 deal (they upped it to $150 off, so the lens is just $150 now) and looking for a gently used 14-42 (anyone selling?) and hopefully have money left over for the Pany 20 f/1.7
     
  20. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    Heh yeah, I dunno what I was writing 2.8 for! I think it's because I was writing something about the Sigma lenses earlier and that number was still stuck in my head, lol.