When to avoid using Electronic Shutter?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by xdayv, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. xdayv

    xdayv Color Blind

    Aug 26, 2011
    Tacloban City, Philippines
    Dave
    What are the scenarios / situations where one should avoid using electronic shutter?

    1. My personal experience is when shooting under some artificial lightings (ex: flourescent).... it has caused some horizontal interference (not sure if the right term).

    2.

    3.
     
  2. Lawrence A.

    Lawrence A. Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 14, 2012
    New Mexico
    Larry
    I'm so behind the times that "electronic shuttter" still means a focal plane shutter that requires batteries to operate, unlike, say, the mechanical shutter in my old (and good) OM-1. I wish there were a different term for the new technological option.
     
  3. biomed

    biomed Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 22, 2013
    Seattle area
    Mike
     
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  4. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Gordon
    If its first curtain electronic then some lenses at high shutter speeds can give ueven exposures.I get this with my Leica 135mm on my A7.

    Gordon
     
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  5. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川

    hey you're not alone, even in Chinese language we experience the same confusion
     
  6. PandaSPUR

    PandaSPUR Mu-43 Regular

    51
    Feb 6, 2014
    From my experience with my GM1, I agree with your first point and add a second:

    Long exposures involving moving subjects.
    I was in a subway station when a train was approaching, decided to see how it would look if I hand held a half second exposure as it passed in front of me. Forgot I had the E Shutter on and ended up with some nasty jello effects in my picture.
     
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  7. yakky

    yakky Mu-43 Top Veteran

    662
    Jul 1, 2013
    Shooting vertical with moving subjects can make them super skinny or really fat depending on which way they are running.
     
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  8. greenarcher02

    greenarcher02 Mu-43 Veteran

    330
    Feb 13, 2012
    Manila, Philippines
    Moving subjects

    artificial light (the term you're looking for might be banding...)

    and any time it's not necessary?

    I personally still prefer the mechanical shutter. I only use electronic shutter when it's absolutely necessary to be quiet. That's my first priority. Even if it's in artificial lighting. I don't know the exact values but there's a certain shutter speed when the banding is no longer seen or minimized? I think it's a slower speed, and it depends on the light frequency or something...
     
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  9. Biro

    Biro Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 8, 2011
    Jersey Shore
    Steve
    Generally, I'd avoid using an electronic shutter with any fast-moving subject. Faster shutter speeds may help mitigate the so-called "rolling shutter effect" but if I have the option to use a mechanical shutter in such a situation, that's the route I'd take. But rolling-shutter effect isn't necessarily limited to electronic shutters. Here's a famous photograph from the first Indianapolis 500 in 1911 - many decades before an electronic shutter was invented:

    https://www.google.com/search?q=fir...ay%2FFirst-Indy-500-Race-Is-Held.html;456;275
     
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  10. biomed

    biomed Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 22, 2013
    Seattle area
    Mike
    Even the mechanical focal plane shutter on digital and film cameras are rolling shutters and are susceptible to these effects. The only digital cameras that are not susceptible have global shutters where the whole sensor image is transferred to the buffer at once. The effects usually only a problem at slow shutter speeds with focal plane shutters. In lens leaf shutters do not as a rule have any issues with the rolling shutter effects. The main problem with the leaf shutter is uneven exposure (more exposure at the center of the image than at the edges/corners).
     
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  11. Drdave944

    Drdave944 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    702
    Feb 2, 2012
    Can you use flash with electronic shutter?
     
  12. oldracer

    oldracer Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 1, 2010
    USA
    I would view it from another angle:

    Question: "When to use electronic shutter?"
    Answer: "Only when its silence is so critical that its deficiencies must be accepted."
     
  13. biomed

    biomed Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 22, 2013
    Seattle area
    Mike
    No, flash is disabled. The duration of the light is too short to get a completed image recorded.
     
  14. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Dara
    Or when you care enough about image quality that you don't want to accept the deficiencies of the mechanical shutter, i.e. shutter-shock induced blur.
     
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  15. biomed

    biomed Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 22, 2013
    Seattle area
    Mike
    I find that the electronic shutter covers at least 90% of my shooting. A big advantage is it eliminates shutter shock with any lens and any shutter speed. I use the mechanical shutter only when I need to use flash or I am photographing fast moving subjects. I have the electronic/mechanical shutter selection assigned to a function button on my GH3 and GX7.
     
  16. biomed

    biomed Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 22, 2013
    Seattle area
    Mike
    Here is an example of distortion caused by a focal plane shutter and fast moving subject from 1910. Notice the flagman is not distorted, just the speeding race car. The camera was probably a 4x5. The larger format and slow focal plane shutter contributed to the distortion.

    Barney Oldfield at Daytona Beach driving a Blitzen Benz. Oldfield broke the 1906 Stanley Steamer 127 mph record with a speed of 131.724 mph. It is remarkable - the Benz was a chain drive car.
    12666752564_79d4a68378_z.
     
  17. xdayv

    xdayv Color Blind

    Aug 26, 2011
    Tacloban City, Philippines
    Dave
    I am the other way around, I use mechanical shutter for most of the times. But like you, I assigned a function button, Fn3 to quickly engage silent mode (which enables electronic shutter), most likely when silence is needed.
     
  18. jloden

    jloden Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2012
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    I use the electronic shutter every week (need the silence for sermon photos at our church), so I've got a fair amount of experience with it at this point.

    For the frequency interference/ under certain lights, I've been able to work around it with careful shutter speed selection. We have 3 big-screen TVs behind our pastor while he's talking, used for slides and imagery. If I shoot at 1/125s they're fine, anything higher than that gives me brown banding on the screens.

    The rolling shutter artifacts are a major reason I turn the electronic shutter off any time I don't specifically need it. With moving subjects like people, I have to go into it knowing a certain percentage of my shots will have slight distortions and/or partial motion blur. An odd effect you get with the e-shutter is that even at higher shutter speeds the subject will sometimes be partially in sharp focus and partially motion blurred. I lose a number of shots to this effect so I tend to shoot in burst mode to up my chances of getting some critically sharp photos across the frame.

    Additionally, the electronic shutter disables flash and the ability to go beyond ISO 1600 or do exposures longer than 1s.

    For still photos (versus time lapse or video with thousands of frames for example), unless you need the silent operation or are specifically worried about shutter shock then the mechanical shutter will provide better results.

    Supposedly the rolling shutter artifacts are greatly reduced in the GH4 so that would be a big help and good reason to upgrade for me if it lives up to the promise.
     
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  19. oldracer

    oldracer Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 1, 2010
    USA
    I admit that I have not experimented with this, but coming from the film Nikon and Hassie world with large mechanical objects being flung around during exposure, it is hard for me to be too concerned about this issue in M43. Yes I locked up the mirror, but only on rare occasions.

    I would be interested to see some comparison photos to see what difference the ES makes in practice, superior though it may be in theory.
     
  20. PandaSPUR

    PandaSPUR Mu-43 Regular

    51
    Feb 6, 2014
    Know whats funny? With DSLRs, we worry about that mirror causing shock, and have no worry about the shutter.
    Now with the GM1, which only has one mechanical curtain, we still worry about that tiny mass moving.
    Next thing you know, electronic and global shutters will be so advanced they take over. And then we'll be worried about shutter button shock; people will advocate for "touch to shoot" which we have on cameras already, and eventually shutter buttons will be replaced by a fixed, touch-sensitive "button"
     
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