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What should our cameras be called? (From Sony thread)

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by carpandean, Aug 3, 2011.

  1. carpandean

    carpandean Mu-43 Top Veteran

    827
    Oct 29, 2010
    Western NY
    We have a little sub-thread going on in the Sony thread (my fault), so I thought this deserved its own thread and poll. Now that these mirrorless lines are more mature, what is the best name to use?

    MSC = Mirrorless System Camera
    • Strengths: conveys the two defining characteristics of the system in that they lack a mirror (vs. DSLRs), but are a system with multiple lenses rather than a single fixed one.
    • Weaknesses: Mirrorless is the lack of something, not what it has. System may be misunderstood. Do we want "camera" in the name?

    CSC = Compact System Camera
    • Strengths: conveys that they are a system with multiple lenses rather than a fixed one and that they tend to be smaller.
    • Weaknesses: Compact is a term already associated with small sensor cameras, which brings some negative misconceptions that :43:, in particular, is trying to escape. Not all mirrorless cameras are compact (e.g., GH2) and there maybe higher end models added later that are even larger. System may be misunderstood. Do we want "camera" in the name?

    EVIL = Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens
    • Strengths: sounds cool
    • Weaknesses: unless you count the LCD (which DSLRs also have), not all of our cameras (e.g., E-P1 and GF3) have EVFs, even detachable ones. Does not really convey anything about the internal function of mirrorless cameras.

    MILC = Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera
    • Strengths: like MSC conveys the two key features
    • Weaknesses: Mirrorless is the lack of something, not what it has. Do we want "camera" in the name?

    DSLE/DSLM = Digital Single Lens Electronic/Mirrorless
    • Strengths: uses existing naming. Reflects that the "taking" lens is still used for the framing viewfinder (or LCD), like a DSLR, but the image is sent electronically without a mirror.
    • Weaknesses: Is "electronic" clear enough? Mirrorless is the lack of something, not what it has. Too close to DSLR?

    Hybrid Cameras
    • Strengths: Suggests a hybrid between compacts and DSLRs.
    • Weaknesses: Easily confused with other concepts (e.g., also used to describe still and video cameras.) Not descriptive at all.

    Other ideas?
     
  2. ssgreenley

    ssgreenley Mu-43 Top Veteran

    509
    May 12, 2011
    I vote for "micro four thirds" with NEX and others others being called "micro four thirds-like".
     
  3. pharaviel

    pharaviel Mu-43 Veteran

    313
    Jun 20, 2011
    Reggio Emilia, Italy
    Daniele Frizzi
    :rofl:

    NEX should be called CBCC (as Cigarette Box & Coke Can)

    EVIL sounds... well, really evil, but is the most problematic acronym. EV? not really!

    SFILc as in Short Flange Interchangeable Lens camera?
    (short flange is the "positive" vs the mirrorless "negative"

    Short Flange System Camera? not a vowel in this.
     
  4. ~tc~

    ~tc~ Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 22, 2010
    Houston, TX
    You forgot MILC sounds like MILF as a strength. At least as cool as EVIL LOL
     
  5. John M Flores

    John M Flores Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 7, 2011
    Somerville, NJ
    I'm inclined towards DSLE/DSLM but there's something about them that doesn't quite do it for me. I think that I just don't like the letters at the end. So how about a revision of what I proposed in the Sony thread:

    dSLC

    Digital System Lens Camera


    Digital refers to the fact that the viewing system is digital, not optical
    System refers to the fact that it's modular
    Lens refers to interchangeable lenses
    Camera refers to the fact that it's not a phone!
     
  6. carpandean

    carpandean Mu-43 Top Veteran

    827
    Oct 29, 2010
    Western NY
    But DSLR puts D for Digital at the front, too, despite the fact that it has an optical viewfinder. It seems strange to say "we're going to use the same word in the same place, but meaning something very different that defines our system." I think that if you start with DSL, it will be assumed to be "Digital Single Lens" and the last part better differentiate the system (R for Reflex, M for Mirrorless.)
     
  7. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    I vote for MILF. ;)

    Seriously though... MIL Camera / MILC was the first acronym commonly used. so why not just stick with it?

    EVIL was also an early acronym but EVIL simply does not encompass all the cameras of the system, such as the Olympus E-P1, Sony NEX, or Panasonic GF-3, for instance... Nor all the users, as many use the system void of an Electronic Viewfinder by choice.
     
  8. spatulaboy

    spatulaboy I'm not really here

    Jul 13, 2011
    North Carolina
    Vin
    I like EVIL MILFs

    LOL sorry couldn't resist.
     
  9. ZephyrZ33

    ZephyrZ33 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    685
    Nov 18, 2010
    Southern California
    I've been calling it MFT or :43:, cuz honestly.... I never gave a flying $#@$ what Sony/Samsung used to refer to their system. :tongue:

    On a serious note:

    MILC is probably the most common, but "DSLM" makes the most sense to me. Eventually these cameras will have more in common with DSLR's (as far as lens availability, speed, sensor size etc) so why not make that connection but with a clear distinction?

    Some of you argue that things shouldn't be named by what they're lacking.
    What's wrong with "Strap-less Bras"?
     
  10. carpandean

    carpandean Mu-43 Top Veteran

    827
    Oct 29, 2010
    Western NY
    Or "topless beach"? :thumbup:
     
  11. fredlong

    fredlong Just this guy...

    Apr 18, 2011
    Massachusetts USA
    Fred
    What should our cameras be called?

    I call mine "my camera", or occasionally "the G2" to differentiate it from "the Olympus"
     
  12. Biro

    Biro Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 8, 2011
    Jersey Shore
    Steve
    DSLM may make the most sense but just doesn't grab me. I've always used EVIL, mirrorless or micro four thirds.
     
  13. John M Flores

    John M Flores Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 7, 2011
    Somerville, NJ
    Now that I think about each, what the letters of the acronym stand for don't really matter these days. How many consumers know what these acronyms stand for:

    SVGA
    HDMI
    AMOLED
    GSM
    CDMA
    FIOS
    etc...

    With this in mind, I think the most important thing is that the acronym bear some resemblance to the existing acronyms dSLR and P&S. I think dSLR is more important.
     
  14. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    I think this has already been decided, with the major stores (eg, Best Buy), review sites (eg, DPReview, Imaging Resource), and magazines all now using CSC to designate this class of camera. I actually like CSC as a term, but I think it should include small DSLRs (which are also compact and system cameras) in addition to the mirrorless system cameras.
     
  15. G1 User

    G1 User Mu-43 Veteran

    411
    Jul 20, 2010
    Got MILC ? :tongue:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. carpandean

    carpandean Mu-43 Top Veteran

    827
    Oct 29, 2010
    Western NY
    Well, that's one reason that I don't like it. Being small is a typical characteristic, but not a defining feature of mirrorless cameras. Adding that to the fact that "compact" perpetuates the idea that these cameras have small compact camera sensors rather than ones 9x that size, I just can't support CSC. I've seen Panasonic use it in their presentations and I just cringe. MSC would be substantially better, but MILC (which is basically the same thing with a different term for the "system" part) is more widely used, so I support it.

    DSLM is probably the most technical term, which I always like, but I could see why Pen, NEX, and GF users might not like the association with DSLRs.
     
  17. mambastik

    mambastik Mu-43 Regular

    40
    Jan 19, 2011
    I haven't been following the discussion in the previous thread, so apologies if this has already been discussed.

    Wiki says that a viewfinder is "what the photographer looks through to compose, and in many cases to focus, the picture." Merriam-Webster says that it is "for showing the area of the subject to be included in the picture." So in both these definitions, isn't the LCD a viewfinder?

    If we added this:
    image.php?type=P&id=1001914.
    to the back of an LCD, would it then be an EVF according to our definition?
     
  18. ZephyrZ33

    ZephyrZ33 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    685
    Nov 18, 2010
    Southern California

    +1

    I'm really not a big fan of the "DSLM" or "DSLE" term but it makes the most sense in the long run, at least in the North American market.

    If I had a dollar for every time someone inquired the camera type, I'd be hoarding lenses.

    "What type of camera is that?"

    "Micro 4/3rds..." :confused:

    "Compact mirrorless..." :confused:

    "Mirrorless interchangeable lens..." :confused:

    "Compact system?" :confused:

    "Olympus Pen..." :smile: *wait* :confused:

    "It's like a DSLR, but it's smaller with no mirrors" :thumbup: *understood*
     
  19. Narnian

    Narnian Nobody in particular ...

    Aug 6, 2010
    Midlothian, VA
    Richard Elliott
    I prefer to give my cameras individual names. I call mine Ricky (GF1) and Lucy (G1/Red). The new GF2 I will probably call Little Ricky. :tongue:
     
  20. Pan Korop

    Pan Korop Mu-43 Veteran

    479
    Mar 31, 2011
    Phare Ouest
    Less is better, right ?

    So Pens should remain that : Pen non-F (how do you write a bar on top of that F?), and their users PanyLess.

    Lumixes could be PLP PanaLeicaPhenalia, and their users just Pen-less.