What if Olympus made a...

[letsgofishing]

Stylus 100?

The panny LX100 has generated a huge amount of of interest and speculation about its real-life performance over the last week or so. Despite a few "shortcomings" - non-tiltable screen, not touch screen, separate flash etc, it seems as if this highly-specced camera could meet a lot of people's needs - of course, we willl have to wait for in-depth reviews to appear to see if the specs match its performance.

Now what if Oly made a stylus100 using a 1" sensor (from Sony?), fitted it with a 24-120 f1.8-2.8 equiv lens, gave it manual control dials like the EM10, a tiltable touch screen, pop-up flash and sold it for around $700?

IMO, this could be a winner for them

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[alex66]

Perhaps, they would have to make it look stunning, get it displayed in the right shops on the right shelves and price it reasonably. I though am not in the market for a fixed lens camera unless it is really small so perhaps my opinion should be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[letsgofishing]

I'm quite surprised by the lack of interest in this post in the light of the enormous amount of interest in the LX100....

 

[tosvus]

I dont think a post about a hypothetical camera with a 1" will get much interest honestly. The m43 sensor was a major thing with the lx100, as is 4k. Olympus still have no specific plans for 4k even.

 

[Mikefellh]

Well, Panasonic has done it already, so why be interested in Olympus duplicating their efforts?

Although I wish the EV compensation dial was an ISO dial instead...EV compensation is useless when doing manual control.

 

[LowriderS10]

Although I wish the EV compensation dial was an ISO dial instead...EV compensation is useless when doing manual control.

Yes. Yes. Yes. YES.....x 1,000,000

Canon started this with the G-series and it annoys the heck out of me! At the very least make it a programmable dial. But for those of us shooting full manual (you know...the crowd this camera is aimed at), it's a completely wasted dial. I refuse to buy any camera that has one because I know I'll never, ever, EVER use it and resent its presence every time I look at the camera haha.

 

[mattia]

Yes. Yes. Yes. YES.....x 1,000,000

Canon started this with the G-series and it annoys the heck out of me! At the very least make it a programmable dial. But for those of us shooting full manual (you know...the crowd this camera is aimed at), it's a completely wasted dial. I refuse to buy any camera that has one because I know I'll never, ever, EVER use it and resent its presence every time I look at the camera haha.

It's not, not if you have a good auto-ISO option. I find I shoot my A7r in manual with auto-ISO and fine-tune using the exposure compensation dial quite a lot. In almost all shooting I do, ISO is the least important member of the exposure triangle to 'lock down', given the performance of modern sensors. I thought the ev dial would be useless to me, but it's actually incredibly useful.

If the camera doesn't allow auto-ISO (properly) in manual mode, then it is significantly less useful, that I give you.Then again, I spend a lot of time in aperture priority in good light, so I get use out of exposure comp there as well...

 

[tyrphoto]

IMO and arguably, most of the people buying this camera will not be the crowd shooting full manual.

In any case, for many photographers who are using either aperture or shutter priority, the EV dial is quite handy which is why camera makers have been placing that dial there.

I'm also all for having an ISO dial as well but would not necessarily want to replace the EV dial for one. I appreciate cameras that have both dials, like the Fuji XT1 and the Nikon Df as examples, but if I were to have to choose between one or the other, the EV dial is more appreciated.

No right or wrong. Just goes to show that everyone's ideals and preferences are different and that the relationship between photographer and camera is a very personal one.

Well, Panasonic has done it already, so why be interested in Olympus duplicating their efforts?

Although I wish the EV compensation dial was an ISO dial instead...EV compensation is useless when doing manual control.

Yes. Yes. Yes. YES.....x 1,000,000

Canon started this with the G-series and it annoys the heck out of me! At the very least make it a programmable dial. But for those of us shooting full manual (you know...the crowd this camera is aimed at), it's a completely wasted dial. I refuse to buy any camera that has one because I know I'll never, ever, EVER use it and resent its presence every time I look at the camera haha.

 

[LowriderS10]

It's not, not if you have a good auto-ISO option. I find I shoot my A7r in manual with auto-ISO and fine-tune using the exposure compensation dial quite a lot. In almost all shooting I do, ISO is the least important member of the exposure triangle to 'lock down', given the performance of modern sensors. I thought the ev dial would be useless to me, but it's actually incredibly useful.

If the camera doesn't allow auto-ISO (properly) in manual mode, then it is significantly less useful, that I give you.Then again, I spend a lot of time in aperture priority in good light, so I get use out of exposure comp there as well...

Yes it is. For someone who only shoots full manual, an Exp. Comp dial is 100% useless, regardless of auto ISO or any other factor you can think of. I don't care what that dial does, so long as it's something useful (hence my suggestion to make it a programmable one). For me, an ISO dial (regardless of the Auto ISO mode, as I never use that anyways) would be far more useful than an Exp. Comp. dial.

 

[LowriderS10]

IMO and arguably, most of the people buying this camera will not be the crowd shooting full manual.

In any case, for many photographers who are using either aperture or shutter priority, the EV dial is quite handy which is why camera makers have been placing that dial there.

I'm also all for having an ISO dial as well but would not necessarily want to replace the EV dial for one. I appreciate cameras that have both dials, like the Fuji XT1 and the Nikon Df as examples, but if I were to have to choose between one or the other, the EV dial is more appreciated.

No right or wrong. Just goes to show that everyone's ideals and preferences are different and that the relationship between photographer and camera is a very personal one.

Right, for not shooting manual, for sure, it's useful.

But...I just wish they'd make it a programmable dial. That's one of the reasons I love Olympus (E-M5). Two blank dials. Do with them as you please.

 

[robbie36]

I am not really convinced that a longer zoom with a smaller sensor brings a lot to the party. If I need 120mm focal length, I would be happy to go with the Panasonic and crop.

 

[tyrphoto]

Maybe you're onto something. A camera with 4 programmable dials. 1 each on front and back as well as 1 each on either side of the top plate which can all be assignable to different functions with immediate readouts on the LCD/viewfinder.

For now, I think Fuji got it pretty much right with the XT1 in terms of it's physical dials, buttons and overall interface.

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Right, for not shooting manual, for sure, it's useful.

But...I just wish they'd make it a programmable dial. That's one of the reasons I love Olympus (E-M5). Two blank dials. Do with them as you please.

 

[Ray Sachs]

Yes it is. For someone who only shoots full manual, an Exp. Comp dial is 100% useless, regardless of auto ISO or any other factor you can think of.

Except that fewer and fewer people are shooting FULL manual, so that's a really small market to aim for, even if you happen to be in it. Much more common these days is people setting aperture and shutter speed manually, but using auto-ISO, and with that combination, an exposure comp dial is absolutely critical. With today's sensors (let alone what tomorrow may bring!), auto-ISO is an incredibly useful tool, on par with aperture and shutter priority. And more and more people are using it. And a few camera companies are even really getting the setup right (although, sadly, neither Oly nor Pany are among them).

We all have our own preferences but that doesn't make the controls WE don't use useless to anyone else. I personally would get rid of the shutter speed dial because I shoot in aperture priority about 95% of the time. For the rare occasion I adjust the shutter speed manually, I'm happy to use a non-visual dial (with the result showing in the EVF or LCD). I use exposure compensation all the time, so I'd be far less likely to buy a camera where that didn't have a dedicated, marked dial.

Someday, maybe, we'll each be able to design our own "perfect" cameras and make them with today's 3-D printers. But until that time, the camera companies have to try to please the most people they can with a given model, rather than appeal to just you or just me. But I daresay a lot more people are using exposure comp regularly these days than adjusting ISO manually from shot to shot...

-Ray

 

[Ray Sachs]

I am not really convinced that a longer zoom with a smaller sensor brings a lot to the party. If I need 120mm focal length, I would be happy to go with the Panasonic and crop.

As good as that 1" Sony sensor is, a camera large enough to pair it with a really excellent lens at 24-120 and something like f1.8- f2.4 or 2.8 would be pretty sweet. Give it a lens good enough to take advantage of it's 20mp of resolution, and then THAT would be a more crop-able configuration than the LX100. I'd buy it in a second. I'm actually thinking of buying the Canon G7X over the LX100 despite preferring the Pany LX series to anything Canon has made for years. Because I really want something that extends well into the portrait range. 120 would be better than 100, but I can do with 100. 75 just doesn't cut it for me. I have a Nikon 24-120 f4 for my DSLR setup and I LOVE that focal range - the most useful zoom for my shooting style that I've ever used. I'd probably buy the Canon G1X mkII if the sensor was even remotely up to date - pocket size isn't really a priority of mine, but if the controls are OK it's not a downside either. The controls on the G7X look pretty decent - not nearly as good as the LX100, but not bad. But time will tell...

-Ray

 

[demiro]

Ray, are you still test-driving new models? It'd be great if B&H set you up with an LX100, G7X and a G1XMKII for a 3-way shoot and compare.

I am tending to agree with you on the G7X over the LX100. The Panny has all the hype, and deservedly so, but the Canon is iikely the right camera for me, all things considered. .

 

[Mikefellh]

It's not, not if you have a good auto-ISO option.

IMO and arguably, most of the people buying this camera will not be the crowd shooting full manual.

The whole idea of having MARKED manual controls is to set the camera MANUALLY BEFORE you put the camera to your eye to look at the meter (like I used to do with my film SLR for 20 years before I started using digital cameras with unmarked controls), and that includes ISO; although my mother's Kodak Retina Reflex III did have a second meter indicator on top of the camera so you could see what you would see on the meter in the viewfinder would show while you are setting the dials.

Before setting aperture or shutter speed you'd set the ISO FIRST (based on the film you chose)...today being dark and overcast I'd choose ISO400 film....I do the same thing with digital, set the ISO FIRST, although I may decide to change ISO during a shoot; using auto iso with manual controls is the opposite, choosing the ISO last (or letting the camera chose in that case).

The LAST thing I'd do with a camera like the LX100 where I'd be using manual marked controls (or any camera for that matter) is let the camera choose the ISO manually...it's a potential picture spoiler if the camera chooses too high an ISO generating too much noise, not to mention basing an exposure on middle gray instead of the moodiness of the exposure settings I chose; (a conversation to the camera with Auto ISO), "No, I don't want you to choose an ISO for a perfectly exposed image, I WANT you to underexpose using the settings I CHOSE!!"

It's like buying a car with a manual gearshift (a proper one where you actually have a clutch pedal, not the pseudo manual where you have paddles on the steering wheel to change gears electronically), and relying on an automatic choke...it RUINS the experience of having manual controls!

Here's what the top of my mother's SLR looked like...right of the flash shoe you can see the second light meter indicator so you could see what the light meter was telling you while you were setting the controls before putting the camera to your eye:

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[letsgofishing]

Well, Panasonic has done it already, so why be interested in Olympus duplicating their efforts?

Although I wish the EV compensation dial was an ISO dial instead...EV compensation is useless when doing manual control.

To fill in the "holes" that the LX100 has and to replace the Stylus 1 which hasn't been a great seller AFAIK.....

 

[Ray Sachs]

Ray, are you still test-driving new models? It'd be great if B&H set you up with an LX100, G7X and a G1XMKII for a 3-way shoot and compare.

I am tending to agree with you on the G7X over the LX100. The Panny has all the hype, and deservedly so, but the Canon is iikely the right camera for me, all things considered. .

No, Dean, I stopped doing that several months ago. I did it pretty intensively for about a year and then I got really sick of all of the cameras coming and going. It was starting to affect my enjoyment of shooting, so I stopped. I did ask for a review copy of the G1X mkII when it first came out and never heard back from my contact at B&H, so I think that door has closed...

I really don't have any need for a camera like this, but it's a segment of the camera market that I've always been kind of fascinated with, so I always look into them at least. But as impressive as the LX100 is, I really think the future of this segment is in something like the 1" sensor. I think the LX100 and the G1X mkII kind of show the limits of using larger sensors in a zoom compact. They both have relatively larger bodies but take different strategies. The LX100 goes for a shorter zoom range and a faster lens, the G1X mkII goes for a longer zoom but a slower lens (although I'd still probably buy it if they'd put a better sensor in it). I think with a 1" sensor, you could build something about the size of the LX100, maybe a bit smaller, with the same great controls, but take the lens out to 120mm at f2.4 or 2.8. Somebody's gonna build that camera someday, but evidently not for a while longer. They've gone for the superzoom route with the RX10 and FZ1000, which I also think is a great use of that sensor, but neither is a compact camera. I think the bodies of the LX100 and the G1X mkII are kind of the limits of what people will consider a compact. The RX100 and G7X are REALLY compact, more than I need personally, but if they give me controls I can enjoy using, I'm still ok with it. I like what I'm seeing of the G7X, but I'd have to see how some of the reviews start shaking out. The Nikon A and Ricoh GR are almost as small as those and they're both great from a shooting control standpoint, so I'm optimistic that it's very doable...

But, man, take the body of the LX100 with all of it's features and controls, put a 1" sensor in it with a fast 24-120 and I'm all over it... I have to think that's possible if anyone ever sees a market for it...

-Ray

 

[Listener]

I'm more interested in the Panasonic FZ1000 (1" sensor) than in the LX100 (m43 sized sensor).

I see the the FZ1000 as a 35-400 mm walkng-around-lens with a body attached.

 

[tosvus]

Well, Panasonic has done it already, so why be interested in Olympus duplicating their efforts?

Although I wish the EV compensation dial was an ISO dial instead...EV compensation is useless when doing manual control.

I want my cake and eat it too, would have been nice if they could squeeze in both of those