what do I need to know before buying the bokina (90mm AT-X 2.5 tokina)

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by piggsy, Apr 29, 2015.

  1. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    How much to pay for something in around ex/ex+? Anyone know a good seller? Tempted to grab or wait to grab one from Keh.com but I'm open to alternatives.

    Is there any mount type that is of greater or lesser difficulty to adapt to M43? Anything that influences final magnification noticeably through the adapter depth?

    Can the 1:1 adapter be substituted through using ordinary extension tubes? If so, what are the ones to get to do that? Is it worth doing something slightly weird like Bokina (whatever mount) > OM adapter > OM Telescopic Auto Tube 65–116 > OM/M43 adapter?

    Any serial numbers to try to get or avoid?
     
  2. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Vivitar Series 1 90mm 2.5 in OM mount on the way, couldn't seem to find any of the Tokinas with the 1:1 adapter (which as it turns out is not the same thing as a simple extension tube, it's got glass in it). Guess I'll see how it goes.
     
  3. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I think the mated "life size" adapters are actually teleconverters - which have the benefit of not drastically altering working distance like tubes do.

    That Vivitar is a worthy substite. I think you'll enjoy it a lot.
     
  4. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Yeah from what I can gather it's... kinda weird - loses you a stop, limits you from 1:2 to 1:1 across the range and corrects for issues that would otherwise show up if it was a simple tube of the same length. So kind of one of those "part of the lens" TC designs where you could almost consider it a 3.5 1:1/1:2 macro that doesn't have infinity focus, that you can convert to a 2.5 1:2 by chopping a bit of it off :D

    And yeah, nothing I read really indicated that the difference between the Vivitar and Tokina would amount to much more than you would see from just variations in manufacturing dates / level of care given to the lens from manufacture to 2015.
     
  5. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Actually, something I can't seem to find by googling about the adapter -

    How does the mount on the adapter actually work? If I have an OM version coming, is the layout:

    (Vivitar Series 1 90mm 2.5 > OM bayonet) (OM socket > Vivitar Lifesize adapter > OM bayonet) (OM socket to M43 adapter > camera)

    with the adapter having the socket for the overall "brand" of socket on its front? Or is the adapter compatible with any mount version of the lens?

    Having a nagging doubt about whether what I've got coming actually has the adapter included and I would rather get to the bottom of this sooner than later (eg in time to order anything else I actually need to use it :D).
     
  6. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    I should really get a blog for this at this point, heh.

    OK, it turns out there is likely no 1:1 macro converter coming with the lens at all. The mounts apparently need to match as well, so I need to find someone with an OM Tokina or Vivitar lifesize adapter (apparently tokina will work on the vivitar, but not the other way around?) specifically. Not actually finding much of anything to do with anyone even so much as having that or any history of any being sold lately :(

    I can't help but feel that - for a lens that as far as I know, was never sold separately from its adapter in the box - this is a quite misleading image to put on the sale:

    nRQ7b6s.

    y'know? I don't feel "represent" would really hold up here if tested.

    Anyhow with that in mind I've discovered that the 2x Macro Converter is available fairly easily in OM mount, and while it works slightly differently to the actual lifesize converter (7 elements, -2 stops, 2x focal length, 2x mag) it does apparently cope well with anything you can throw onto it including the 90mm by itself. Buying a 50mm F3.5 macro to play with on it just to make it useful for anything if I do manage to find the proper OM mount Lifesize adapter for the 90mm 2.5.
     
  7. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Yeah, it sounds like you got scammed, to be honest. Is this from keh or from eBay? If it's eBay and you payed with PayPal, I might advise doing a chargeback and returning the item, because it's not as described. Unless you got it for a steal, anyway, in which case that's the cost of doing business, I guess...
     
  8. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Keh. I went to Keh specifically because I did not want to run into this kind of thing. Irony is that literally every copy I could find on Ebay at least managed to be clear about what they were selling and include a photo of the actual product. Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffff....
     
  9. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Just to complete the sorry tale this has lasted 2 days before breaking in a way that seems like it will actually be expensive to fix - the main extending focusing part of the lens has about a 5 degree wobble in it (not just like, the outer shell, the lens itself moves), and the aperture ring seems to have fallen off the internal gear that actually moves the aperture blades. Less than 80 photos with it. $300. Plus repair costs. What a deal.
     
  10. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Since this is now apparently my livejournal, and this is kind of funny:

    I have called 8 stores around this morning, trying to find someone willing to look at it, or tell me someone who could.

    2 places said they would be able to look at it - F16 camera service, http://f16cameraservice.com.au , and michael's http://www.michaels.com.au/index.php/services/equipment-servicing , both of whom seemed pretty nice about it.

    everyone else ranged from "what's vivitar" to (more usual) "we won't be able to get parts for it" from everyone else.

    google google google

    https://www.flickr.com/groups/730208@N24/discuss/72157626529444219/

    apparently you need a JIS screwdriver and a towel to fix this and ... not much else?
     
  11. mpg01

    mpg01 Mu-43 Regular

    154
    Oct 21, 2012
    I just had this happen. The lens wiggle part. Roll back the rubber grip and tightened the three very small screws. I actually tightened a bit too much because focus is a bit tight so I may need to adjust it a bit. So before rolling the grip back test it out to make sure it feels right. But not a big deal like having to do a complete tear down.
     
  12. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Haha of course the OM mount version would be different and have this extremely delicate looking string dangling from the bit you do at step 1 :D

    Hmm well, this was shortlived. The screws out the exterior shell at step 3 have been completely stripped - I had no idea they were even meant to be screwholes. Someone has already gotten to them with the wrong screwdriver and completely stripped them, and you can't get to the final bit with the exterior case in the way.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2015
  13. Gary5

    Gary5 Mu-43 Veteran

    310
    Jan 15, 2014
    The lens you received is not as pictured in the ad, it broke internally after two days, and you can't fix it because someone else already tried to fix it but made it worse. Have you told KEH all this? I've heard many stories about them making it good after a mistake like this. Their return policy says: "If you are not satisfied with your purchase, you can return or exchange it to KEH within 14 days of delivery for a full refund... Defective or mis-shipped (incorrect item sold, item description inaccurate or title incorrect) returns will receive a prepaid ground shipping label to return the item."
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Yeah I went over the "not as pictured" part with Keh earlier, and by them that is something I should have known by the fact that they didn't specifically say that it came with that part in the description text. Have to see what they make of the new issues in a bit. At this point I'm tempted to just buy another copy that actually works from Ebay and deal with the other stuff later.
     
  15. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Well, Keh wrote back and said they couldn't give me a refund.






























    Because their accounts department was closed for the day.

    Full refund should arrive back on my card by monday.

    Have to say - I was expecting this to be some kind of horror show of shipping a thing off and potentially ending up with a situation where the lens doesn't work but now it doesn't work in another country entirely, but they came through on this in a way that was pretty much as legit a thing as I have seen all year.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    Glad to hear that it worked out okay in the end. Sounds like you've learned a lot. Back to looking for a Bokina on eBay now?
     
  17. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    I have a whole bunch on my watch list (and every Lester A Dine 105 variant I could find too as a backup) but I'm kind of wondering if I should just sit it out a bit and see what this 2xMFTC and some macro tubes I have coming do for me on the Oly 200/F4 that just arrived, both to see if it's at all usable as a macro-ing device and how 200 works for me. The Vivitar was everything people said it was - truly great used right - but it's the kind of thing where while it was great, but I'm not totally sure that's the exact thing I want.

    I'm wondering if I wouldn't be happier with something either faster (Oly 90 F/2) or longer (200 F4 micro nikkor, Vivitar Series One 90-180/4.5) or all that plus less nasty (really break the bank and get the Zeiss 100/F2).

    Edit - holy crap, after a session with the Oly 200/f4, this thing plus tubes or a diopter could be pretty keen. Was seriously not expecting this to be so good for $69 (with a hoya uv filter thrown in).
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2015
  18. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    @piggsy@piggsy, did you ever find a Tokina 90mm AT-X?

    I think I've found one in SD SR-mount; I'm trying to secure it... hopefully it will be in good condition, the picture are very poorly taken.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2016
  19. That's the difference tween eBay and KEH. On the Bay, you at least stand a pretty good chance of getting what you see. With KEH, you have no idea at all till the deal reaches a critical point..on your doorstep. For some things, that may be fine, others not so much. When really trying to hunt down a particular version or serial number of something..especially lenses..eBay is definitely better.
     
  20. piggsy

    piggsy Mu-43 All-Pro

    Yup, got one in Nikon mount a while back -

    Tokina AT-X 90mm F2.5 - "bokina"

    I got the broken aperture link/snapped in half helicoid on the OM Vivitar 90 repaired & cla'd locally through Michael's Camera, they did a good job of it and it works fine. But yeah - lesson learned - just because something is heavy and people say it's tank-like doesn't mean much when on closer inspection, the thing is held together with tiny springs and screws :D

    Kind of a redundant having it now I also have the tokina version but I thought it would have been a shame to take one of them out of circulation :D. I snapped up the Tokina macro extender in Nikon mount a few months back also, but I had to get someone in the US to grab it for me and they're fiiiinally on their way back to AU in the next few weeks (shipping was going to be more than I paid for the actual thing). Will be interesting to see how the corrective glass in the 'proper' extender differs from the Raynox achromats I've been using to push it past 1:2.
     
    • Like Like x 1