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What A7R II tech might flow down to m4/3?

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by tkbslc, Jun 12, 2015.

  1. tkbslc

    tkbslc Super Moderator

    I know we have a few A7R II threads. Most of those have devolved into FF vs m4/3 battles. That's not what I want to start. I want to talk about what parts of the tech from the new Sony sensor we could see in future m4/3 bodies. We know m4/3 has used Sony sensors in the past.

    So what benefits do you think we could get as a "trickle down"?

    A7R II has:

    BSI sensor for potentially marked high ISO improvement
    ~20% resolution upgrade vs the predecessor
    399 Phase AF points. (couldn't fit one more?)
    500,000 click shutter life
    50% reduction in shutter force (less shock)
    IBIS (With 4K)
    Full sensor 4K
    Base ISO of 100 with expanded ISO 50 option.

    All or any of those would be extremely welcome in a GH5, GX8, E-M1 II or E-P7

    Let's not treat this like a m4/3 vs FF. We know a lot of this tech will benefit other sensor sizes before long. After Sony came out with the A7R and D800 sensor, we got an amazing 16MP 4/3 upgrade for the E-M5 launch.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. dornblaser

    dornblaser Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Aug 13, 2012
    David Dornblaser
    I know that the new A7 will have both 4K and IBIS, I am unclear if the two can be used at the same time.
  3. tkbslc

    tkbslc Super Moderator

    I guess that is a good point. GX7 has IBIS that is not active during video, after all. Assumptions should not be made.
  4. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    Olympus is not a subsidiary of Sony; there is no trickle down, or up between the companies. Olympus, like many other camera makers, buys sensors from Sony. They also buy sensors with newer technology than Olympus does, because Sony 4/3 sensors aren't a big sensor market compared to other formats.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. tkbslc

    tkbslc Super Moderator

    Once the technology is out there, it is not long before the other brands figure out how to use it. Don't you think it mysterious that a year after the Sony 16MP hit the Olympus cams, that Panasonic released their own 16MP sensor of equal quality? I'm not saying there is going to be a board meeting where Sony and Olympus plan out the future of m4/3, but there is now competition pushing the other brands to research, build and/or buy some of this tech.

    I don't think history supports your position that 4/3 gets old tech from Sony.
  6. maritan

    maritan Mu-43 Veteran

    Oct 30, 2014
    I sure hope Olympus figures out the BSI tech and gives us much (much) lower noise up to about ISO6400.

    Better CAF would be great, but if I could get just one improvement, that would be noise performance at high ISO.
  7. The difference in noise and ISO sensitivity of the two larger BSI sensors seen so far (Sony 1" 20mp and Samsung APS-C 28mp) when compared to their predecessors has been about 1/3 stop. Not something that I'd be selling my grandmother to acquire.
  8. sootyvrs

    sootyvrs Mu-43 Regular

    Mar 6, 2015
  9. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    I's sell your grandmother for it.
    • Funny Funny x 2
  10. You must be a rather sad individual then.
  11. eteless

    eteless Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 20, 2014
    I can't give you BSI however I'll give you $2.50
  12. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    Sony never had any interest Olympus' camera division. The interest was in their medical imaging division, which is Olympus' primary business. Sony's stake was probably primarily done as a favor to Olympus to give them a cash infusion. This is like asking if Chrysler will get trickle down technology from Ferrari.

    If Sony really had an interest in Olympus' cameras, Olympus wouldn't be using sensors with the same era technology as the D7000.
  13. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    Yes, Sony was interested in their medical imaging division. It's the money maker afterall. But they were also interested in the digital camera division.

    As per the President of Olympus about Sony when they bought 11.5% of Olympus.

    "Olympus President, Hiroyuki Sasa's statement explains 'In the field of digital cameras, we will seek to achieve collaboration in a manner that further improves the competitiveness of the two companies.'"

    In an article about Sony selling half it's stake in Olympus recently, more details about what technology was shared.

    "The two companies have already created a separate medical joint-venture to apply Sony's technologies to products based around Olympus's success in the endoscope market. The original deal also included Sony gaining lens and optical know-how from Olympus, and supplying Olympus cameras with sensors."


    And yes, technology does trickle between Ferrari and Chrysler, just not in the direction you think.

    As per the former header of Ferrari, “Ferrari is now American."

  14. GFFPhoto

    GFFPhoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 24, 2013
    Seems to me like that's just an incindiary quote from a disgruntled ex employee. It's not that Ferrari is American... It's that Chrysler is now Italian.
  15. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    He's wasn't just any old employee. It's not like he swept floors or ran the register at the gift shop. He ran Ferrari. He'd been the Chairman of Ferrari since 1991. He made Ferrari a winner again both on the race track and in the marketplace. He made it a gold standard in luxury brands and profitable. So him saying "Ferrari is now American" would be like if Tim Cook said "Apple is now Microsoft".
  16. GFFPhoto

    GFFPhoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 24, 2013
    Well, CEOs can be disgruntled, and he is clearly trying to be incendiary with that statement. And besides... Chrysler has not been an american brand ever since their "merger" with Daimler turned out to be less merger and more takeover. Today... Chrysler is Italian, Volvo is Chinese, Rolls Royce is German and Jaguar is Indian. Welcome to 2015.

  17. HarryS

    HarryS Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Jun 23, 2012
    Midwest, USA
    Wish I would have bought some Oly stock and doubled my money like Sony. I bought Panasonic stock a few years ago, but I lost faith and got rid of it.

    Anyway, BSI is a specific and novel way of making sensors, and Sony would love to amortize its costs by using that process to make m43 sized product. The next generation of OMD's and PEN's will surely have Sony BSI sensors if it really works as advertised. Panasonic will probably have internal political battles on whether to make or to buy sensors for the next GX, GH, and G series.

    And I expect all cameras will have better WiFi interfaces for remote shooting and social media uploads.
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