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Was wondering - why wouldn't Sigma bring their premium Art series to MFT?

Discussion in 'Native Lenses' started by Timur, Feb 1, 2016.

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  1. Timur

    Timur Mu-43 Regular

    124
    Nov 10, 2015
    Timur
    Just curious, would we see them on our system or not? I know they've released 3 budget primes, and they are pretty good. But I do crave some of that premium glass they released on the FF and APCS systems. Especially, would love to have a 1.8 zoom, similar to the awesome 18-35 for apsc.

    Thoughts? Maybe some rumours?
     
  2. Speedliner

    Speedliner Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 2, 2015
    Southern NJ, USA
    Rob
    Because MFT users are an enthusiastic group willing to pay for high quality lenses...even though there aren't many of us compared to DSLR users.
     
  3. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    I think the R&D would cost more than it's worth for them. The 19/30/60 art lenses were just retooled from their DP series. Unless mirrorless takes over 50% of the ILC marketshare, it'll be awhile before we seem some premium Sigma glass.
     
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  4. Timur

    Timur Mu-43 Regular

    124
    Nov 10, 2015
    Timur
    Lol i mucked up the title, i meant to say "why wouldn't". because they certainly don't seem to be interested in this market :)
     
  5. Timur

    Timur Mu-43 Regular

    124
    Nov 10, 2015
    Timur
    mm. I think if they could fill the gaps in MFT line up and people would buy them personally. 17.5mm 1.4 with AF should be pretty popular (especially if it's sharper than current oly 17mm), 12mm & 14mm 1.4 would be awesome. And a premium fast zoom would sell, there are only 4 offerings from oly and panasonic currently, not much choice. 12-35 f1.8 - i'd sell a kidney to get one if it was released :D
     
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  6. Ramsey

    Ramsey Mu-43 Top Veteran

    719
    Jan 9, 2013
    Zagreb, Croatia
    If that was released and was reasonably sharp, it would be IMO the biggest seller in m43 world.

    Forget the primes from 12-45mm fl, people would be all over this lens.
     
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  7. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    Sigma is into selling to multiple camera systems though. With Sony pushing for FF and focusing less on APS-C, I doubt we'll see Sigma making smaller format lenses. What's more likely is that they'll design lenses and sell them to Olympus or Panasonic to use. Rumor had it the Olympus 75mm 1.8 is originally a Sigma design, so who knows?
     
  8. John M Flores

    John M Flores Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 7, 2011
    Somerville, NJ
    The M43 market just isn't big enough for them to bother. With APS-C/FF design they can probably sell the same basic lens design across multiple brands and mounts with minimal changes and thus amortize their investment across multiple brands and mounts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Timur

    Timur Mu-43 Regular

    124
    Nov 10, 2015
    Timur
    Mm, maybe the market is not big enough. I guess it's harder to judge when you're committed to a system like mft, I just don't follow other systems and not really sure what their shares are. I do know dslr is way bigger, its just mft seemed to be growing fast enough for manufacturers to be interested in producing lenses and accessories for it.
     
  10. mcasan

    mcasan Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 26, 2014
    Atlanta
    What does Sigma say when you ask them?
     
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  11. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I can't think of a singe one of the ART primes I'd take over the PL25mm and 42.5mm we already have for m4/3.

    The 18-35 and 24-35 fast zooms are ridiculously huge and not really good ranges for m4/3 anyway. And all of the SLR designed lenses would have to be an inch longer for m4/3 shallower mount.

    No thanks!
     
  12. Timur

    Timur Mu-43 Regular

    124
    Nov 10, 2015
    Timur
    Sarcasm?
     
  13. Timur

    Timur Mu-43 Regular

    124
    Nov 10, 2015
    Timur
    erm, 35 1.4? Also, I'd definitely buy a zoom if it was available for our system, it wouldn't be as big as the 18-35 cause that one is designed for APCS. Even then I see a lot of film makers adapting that lens to MFT because of how sharp and flexible it is for them. And it's priced very well, cheaper than both pana's and oly's 2.8 zooms. I didn't mean adapting those lenses like Samyang does (basically adding an adapter at the end of the lens), but rather producing a proper mft version. It should be a bit larger than 12-40, but I wouldn't mind.

    I guess it's a matter of preference. Probably not gonna happen anyway
     
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  14. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I assumed you meant the current lineup of DSLR lenses based on your wording. 20mm f1.4, 24mm f1.4 and 35mm f1.4 ART are pretty close to the PL25mm, honestly. And you could get a 42.5mm f1.2 instead of a 35mm f1.4 or 50mm f1.4 Art. So I don't see the appeal of any current designs.

    I don't think there is even a tiny chance that they would develop new pro lenses like that for m4/3. The lenses would be off-putting due to the size and cost and the user base is already very limited vs DSLR mounts. Sales would be small.

    Honestly, if you want really big lenses and fast apertures maybe you should switch to DSLR? I'm not trying to be dismissive, it is just that a 2lb 5" long 2x zoom doesn't really fit in with what most associate m4/3 with.
     
  15. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    The CEO says the sales volumes would not justify the investment in a zero-base m43 lens.
     
  16. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    The current Sigma ART lenses sold for DSLRs are not designed to work with contrast detection, and I'm not even sure they have AF motors that are capable of focusing properly on CDAF bodies. They can probably do it, but it would be like using my 11-22mm on my GX7 - very slow and hesitant. I would suspect that that is the main answer. Sigma doesn't seem to have much hesitation to release their ART lenses for other niche DSLR mounts (Pentax K, Sony A) but the AF motors are all compatible. That wouldn't be the case with mirrorless mounts.

    Likely you'd see them arriving for E-mount first long before M4/3, if only because it looks like Sony is making a hard push towards the ability to use native full-time PDAF focusing on the FE bodies.

    And for those discussing truly native M4/3 lenses, there simply aren't enough gaps to make it profitable. Sure, you might be able to squeak in with the odd niche lens like a 12mm or 17mm f1.4 that might get a few sales. But those are not simple lenses to design and build, and with rumours of Olympus building a line of f1.2 primes, their control of even those niches would likely be very brief.
     
  17. Timur

    Timur Mu-43 Regular

    124
    Nov 10, 2015
    Timur
    Again, I don't want them to merely adapt current line up like Samyang did, rather them to develop new set of lenses with the same philosophy and design features that went into developing the FF line up. They will not be as large as ff, why would you assume so. So just to clarify (not sure why, since this is going no where honestly), in my hypothetical scenario, they'd develop 10mm 1.4 (20mm equiv), 12mm 1.4 (24mm equiv), 17.5mm 1.4 (35mm equiv), and maybe a 25mm f1.4 (there's only one 25mm 1.4 af so far, rest are slower or manual). And a zoom lens, for example 12-35 1.8 or 12-35 2 (if 1.8 is too big). That entire lineup would have no equivalent offerings in our system (apart from panaleica, but the ff 50 also goes against a ton of standard lenses). Now, I do realize our system is quite a bit smaller than ff dslr and apsc. But I think some of those lenses could be very popular if they were developed. I don't think it will happen (as I said few posts above), but just clarifying my position.
     
  18. Timur

    Timur Mu-43 Regular

    124
    Nov 10, 2015
    Timur
    This sounds like a serious reason, i haven't considered that before.

    I still think mft has a gap in zooms. We have good expensive pro zooms, weather sealed, all the bells and whistles. But there's nothing in between those, and the cheap kit zooms below. Would be cool to get some mid range offerings too imo.
     
  19. EarthQuake

    EarthQuake Mu-43 Top Veteran

    833
    Sep 30, 2013
    Sigma makes mass market products, they make money selling lenses to a lot of people and undercutting the profit margins of first party vendors. To do this they need the economy of scale. Their primary market is Canon and Nikon DSLR users, which is still the vast majority of the ILC market. Even Pentax and Sony Alpha have users have had trouble getting current Sigma lenses produced in a timely fashion for their systems, and the mount swap is much easier there, and (historically, less so these days) the market share has been larger than M43 for those systems.

    Even if you look at yearly sales and see good numbers for mirrorless or M43 cameras, you're not looking at the full picture. Canon/Nikon have massive installed user bases going back many years, many factors larger than our fledgling system.

    So, for Sigma to make a viable M43 product, they need to be able to sell it to users of multiple camera systems. This means FF or APS-C lens designs, and they generally have two options:

    1. Make native mount versions of their existing DSLR line, essentially lenses with built in adapters.
    2. Make native mount versions of lenses exclusive to mirrorless cameras, which due to the short flange can not be sold to Canon/Nikon users, Sigma's primary userbase.

    #1 makes very little sense. The lenses are excessively heavy, large, will likely focus slowly (designed for PDAF), are odd focal lengths for M43rds and cost more than native mount lenses in many cases. I'm a big fan of Sigma lenses. I've owned the 12-24, 24/1.8, 35/1.4, 50/1.4, 85/1.4, 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8, all of which were Art line or equivalent (most designed before they used that designation). All were lovely lenses in a number of ways but there isn't a single one that I would want in native M43 mount. They are all either too big/heavy (the primary reason I not longer own them nor my DSLR), or simply illogical focal lengths when compared to my native mount lenses.

    #2 Makes some sense, which is why they did it with the cheap-o 2.8 line, but I doubt they would have released this line were they not going to design these lenses for their fixed lens cameras. Even then, you end up with slow, oddball focal length lenses in M43rds land. If Sigma puts out more mirrorless lenses, I would except something more like this, but likely APS-C or FE mount to hit the most systems they can, which once again means lenses larger, heavier and/or slower than I would want for a native M43 lens.

    Saying all of this, I would love to see native Sigma lenses designed specifically for M43. Something like a 6-12/4-5.6, 6/4, 7/2.8 or 4, 17/1.4, maybe a few others. But I won't hold my breath, the marketshare just isn't big enough to support such niche products.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
  20. wjiang

    wjiang Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sigma already considers its revised DN f/2.8 primes for m4/3 'Art' lenses, going by their labelling.
     
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