Using HHHR mode for shooting the moon - it works really well!

RAH

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I found a Youtube video on this topic that I thought would be interesting to folks on this forum (I also added the info to my other thread on hi-res and "reach"). The video is here:
He tests a few options - taking a bunch of burst regular images and stacking them in Photoshop, taking a tripod-mode hi-res image with the E-M1.3, and taking an HHHR hi-res (pardon my redundancy, as W.C. Fields would say) image with the E-M1.3. ALL SHOTS taken using a tripod.

His results and conclusion are very interesting - the HHHR shot (USING a TRIPOD) came out the best. His guess is that the HHHR images are stacked in the camera and aligned nicely. He doesn't seem to realize that HHHR mode usually RELIES on you hand movement to get a bunch of slightly different images to stack, so using it on a tripod would normally not hurt but not do much. But my guess is that he's right - the camera is essentially using the movement of the moon as a substitute for hand movement and combining the images into a nice composite. In this case, the HHHR mode seems to work somewhat better than stacking a bunch of regular burst images in PhotoShop. I think this might be of interest to any Oly E-M1.3 users. Hmmm, I am having a GAS attack to get one! (I have an E-M5.3)

The tripod mode hi-res predictably doesn't yield very good results. It makes sense that the movement of the moon would just screw it up something fierce.
 
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I tried this tonight but kept getting an error after each shot. Anyone seen this? I tried messing with a few basic settings to no avail (ISO, shutter speed, file size, aperture, etc).

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
 

comment23

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I tried this tonight but kept getting an error after each shot. Anyone seen this? I tried messing with a few basic settings to no avail (ISO, shutter speed, file size, aperture, etc).

View attachment 848703
I’ve seen the same thing when trying this. Assumed it was not possible for the camera to align images when the majority of the frame was featureless and severely underexposed.
 

RAH

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Yeah, I wonder if it is the focal length being used. I mean, maybe you need to fill more (or less) of the frame with the moon itself. It seems that it would take some experimenting with a zoom like the 100-400 to determine which FL is best (presumably high).

I was thinking that maybe the stability of the tripod might matter too. It shouldn't matter much for an HHHR shot (where "hand" movement is the whole point), but perhaps when the movement you are using is just the horizontal creep of the moon, you need to be rock-steady with everything else? The whole thing is a fudge, of course (i.e. using HHHR on a tripod with the moon moving), but it seems if it worked for the YT guy, it should work for others.

Also, could it be where on the globe a person is located, or the time of night? I mean, the movement of the moon across the sky is probably different depending on these factors. So maybe actual horizontal movement would be OK whereas a slightly slanted movement thru the frame wouldn't work?
 
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I’m camping this weekend and might bring a tripod along in case we get clear skies. Fairly dark skies at the park so if the clouds are gone then I could get a very clear shot!
 

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I think HHHR do not require out of alignment shots. If it would be perfectly aligned, like shooting Big Ben on a tripod. It would work just as fine. Only difference is the camera computes that no alignment is necessary and processes like usual.

I have a E-M5.3 and HR does NOT work well on moon, on tripod, for obvious reasons :)

Because of that (and other) reasons a E-M1.3 would be great. I am waiting for the deal of the year though so no hurry :)
 

RAH

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From everything I have read (and watched on YouTube), the way HHHR works is by using the movement of your holding of the camera (not steady) to give slightly different images that it then uses to produce one composite high res shot. That IS its usual process with HHHR. It substitutes your imperfect holding for the technique used by tripod hi-res, where there is no movement and the camera moves the sensor around. I'm not saying that it would complain if there is no movement, but it certainly violates the whole idea, IMHO (forgetting about this moon-shooting fudge where the moon itself is moving). It is a good question, however, what the camera would do with shooting a stationary scene from a tripod using HHHR. I suppose it would generate a 50MP image, but, well, I don't know... Doesn't it NEED the movement to do its thing?
 
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doxa750

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I tried this tonight but kept getting an error after each shot. Anyone seen this? I tried messing with a few basic settings to no avail (ISO, shutter speed, file size, aperture, etc).

View attachment 848703
Yes, I have seen this from time to time when trying to capture moon image using HHHR feature. It depends on various factors of which I still couldn't figure out. What I do usually is that if I fail 3 times from 3 attempts, I moved on. So far, I have had good success rate.

Just to clarify, I have only been trying HHHR shot without tripod. I am not sure your error happens with HHHR + Tripod.
 

doxa750

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I found a Youtube video on this topic that I thought would be interesting to folks on this forum (I also added the info to my other thread on hi-res and "reach"). The video is here:
He tests a few options - taking a bunch of burst regular images and stacking them in Photoshop, taking a tripod-mode hi-res image with the E-M1.3, and taking an HHHR hi-res (pardon my redundancy, as W.C. Fields would say) image with the E-M1.3. ALL SHOTS taken using a tripod.

His results and conclusion are very interesting - the HHHR shot (USING a TRIPOD) came out the best. His guess is that the HHHR images are stacked in the camera and aligned nicely. He doesn't seem to realize that HHHR mode usually RELIES on you hand movement to get a bunch of slightly different images to stack, so using it on a tripod would normally not hurt but not do much. But my guess is that he's right - the camera is essentially using the movement of the moon as a substitute for hand movement and combining the images into a nice composite. In this case, the HHHR mode seems to work somewhat better than stacking a bunch of regular burst images in PhotoShop. I think this might be of interest to any Oly E-M1.3 users. Hmmm, I am having a GAS attack to get one! (I have an E-M5.3)

The tripod mode hi-res predictably doesn't yield very good results. It makes sense that the movement of the moon would just screw it up something fierce.
Thanks for sharing the video. I never tried HHHR of moon shot on a tripod so this is pretty good information.
 

Holoholo55

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From everything I have read (and watched on YouTube), the way HHHR works is by using the movement of your holding of the camera (not steady) to give slightly different images that it then uses to produce one composite high res shot. That IS its usual process with HHHR. It substitutes your imperfect holding for the technique used by tripod hi-res, where there is no movement and the camera moves the sensor around. I'm not saying that it would complain if there is no movement, but it certainly violates the whole idea, IMHO (forgetting about this moon-shooting fudge where the moon itself is moving). It is a good question, however, what the camera would do with shooting a stationary scene from a tripod using HHHR. I suppose it would generate a 50MP image, but, well, I don't know... Doesn't it NEED the movement to do its thing?
I'm very curious about your assertion that HHHR depends on the movement of your camera to work. The tripod HR works by shifting the sensor to get the higher res, and IBIS is deactivated for HR. However, you're suggesting that IBIS might actually be on in HHHR and that the movement of the sensor is used to obtain the sub-pixel interpolation that would yield the HR image. Is that right? I haven't been able to find documentation of how HHHR works, so I posed the question to Olympus. I hope they respond. :)
 

comment23

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I'm very curious about your assertion that HHHR depends on the movement of your camera to work. The tripod HR works by shifting the sensor to get the higher res, and IBIS is deactivated for HR. However, you're suggesting that IBIS might actually be on in HHHR and that the movement of the sensor is used to obtain the sub-pixel interpolation that would yield the HR image. Is that right? I haven't been able to find documentation of how HHHR works, so I posed the question to Olympus. I hope they respond. :)
 

RAH

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I'm very curious about your assertion that HHHR depends on the movement of your camera to work. The tripod HR works by shifting the sensor to get the higher res, and IBIS is deactivated for HR. However, you're suggesting that IBIS might actually be on in HHHR and that the movement of the sensor is used to obtain the sub-pixel interpolation that would yield the HR image. Is that right? I haven't been able to find documentation of how HHHR works, so I posed the question to Olympus. I hope they respond. :)
Yes, that is right - it works by harnessing your imperfect moving of the camera. I don't know about whether it allows use of IBIS, but I think it doesn't matter because even if you have it ON, it might deactivate it internally without notice (i.e. HHHR is going to do its thing). @comment23 posted the Robin Wong video that I would have posted. There are ways of rolling your own HHHR using burst mode and then a ton of post-processing, but I think then you'd only wind up with something like an HDR image without more pixels. So the camera is doing some spooky stuff here.
 

Holoholo55

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Yes, that is right - it works by harnessing your imperfect moving of the camera. I don't know about whether it allows use of IBIS, but I think it doesn't matter because even if you have it ON, it might deactivate it internally without notice (i.e. HHHR is going to do its thing). @comment23 posted the Robin Wong video that I would have posted. There are ways of rolling your own HHHR using burst mode and then a ton of post-processing, but I think then you'd only wind up with something like an HDR image without more pixels. So the camera is doing some spooky stuff here.
Interesting. If I get any response from Olympus, I'll post it here.
 

NikkoExiledInSF

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I have used HHHR *on a tripod, mounted with a star tracker* when shooting the Milky Way. It works a treat and I get: (a) a super high-rez picture; and (b) less noise. I usually shoot around 2 mins with the Oly 8/f1.8 wide open, and the movement of the tracker in between the shots allows the camera to work its magic. Give it a try!
 

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