(UPDATED W/IMAGE SAMPLES!) HOT! NEW CV 25MM f0.95 NOKTON!

Gwendal

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...also, I don't see mentioned that Voigtlander are also releasing a f1.8 75mm - pretty long on a m4/3, but still a great thing !
 

vincechu

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wow I'm surprised this has hit 80 replies :) Normally I'd reply to everyone individually in my threads, but you're all going to have to let me off with 80 ;-)

There's been some great points here and it's been interesting seeing everyone take on the lens.
 

shinobi

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Thanks for helping un-mince my words :)

I did actually have a fun photo day with my 5D2-owning friend - we also tried an experiment where we used the same focal length and f stop and framed the subject the same way. Naturally my E-PL1 had to be twice as far back, the result being that the bokeh in the background was twice as small.

So with a bigger sensor and the resulting wider field of view for a given focal length, you can be closer to the subject which gives you bigger bokeh. Which of course isn't what you always want, but there is a lot more flexibility there.

2x has advantages too. Take a telephoto lens like a Zeiss 135mm, shoot a subject like a small flower with 5D and Pen. At the minimum focusing distance of the lens on both cameras, Pen gets the flower 2x bigger, and the same DOF as when shot on 5D. It is easier to focus as well with a f/1.4 on m4/3 than on 5D.

Of course, 2x can be a disadvantage.

So I just treat 2x as another media type, like medium format film is different from 35mm film. We just learn to compose accordingly. Best of course if we have various cameras. For those who can only have one, and an m4/3, art can still be created. Bokeh is not everything :)


.
 

Gwendal

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Thanks for the pointer - they look really good to me - but I'd be curious to see some with more potential of CA etc, and I'm surprised they seem sharper at f0.95 than the Nokton at 1.2 ?
 

vincechu

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Hi Gwendal, I agree, I'd like to see some with more potential of CA too. The new nokton seems way better than the Noktor wide open to my eyes, seems sharper? I'm likin the smooth bokeh too
 

usayit

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There are many choices for non-native fast aperture lenses out there.

Honestly.. the difference between: f/0.95, f/1, f/1.1, even f/1.2 is nominal... a "0.95" is a pure marketing push.

I don't see the value this new lens brings to the table. If it were AF, then that would be a totally different story. The market segment to which these cameras are aimed at are the typical consumer. By in large, the typical consumer will not use a manual focus lens. I think Panasonic has the right answer... high quality 100% functioning native primes for m4/3rds.
 
C

ccmsosse

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Hi there

Welcome to ReidReviews
Sean Reid or Reid Reviews (excellent site) promises: "I will be testing the new Voigtlander 25/.95 lens for mFT mount cameras and I plan to continue the site's coverage of compact cameras (with both small and medium sized sensors) that are designed for serious photographers."

When this is done we'll know how good this lens is ....

Cheers
 

arpoador

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Hi Usayit -

I'd agree with you on the availability of fast legacy lenses, and the 0.95 number is a bit of a gimmick. (For reference, a full stop faster than 1.0 would be 0.71, and a half stop would be 0.84.) As it happens, I've already accumulated two 1.2's and several in the 1.4 - 2.0 range, which are already pretty fast.

The key here is the 25mm focal length. The 4/3 and µ4/3 formats are designed for the light rays to be parallel when they leave the last lens surface, so they all strike the sensor orthogonally. For telephoto legacy lenses (and I think even 50mm lenses kind of fit that description), the rays already strike the sensor at close to perpendicular, so it's not a major issue. (I'm sure it's not an issue for 135mm and 200mm lenses.)

But for lenses with a smaller focal length, I'm not so sanguine. I have a nice 35mm f/2.0 lens, but I'm reluctant to use it wide open because I get pretty bad color shifts at the sides of the images. I'm not sure if this is due to the issue described above, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.

By contrast, a 25mm lens designed specifically for µ4/3 (which is what Voigtländer is promising here) would take the parallel-rays issue into account. That means it's likely to be fairly sharp and color accurate for much more of the image frame.

In addition, 25mm gives you more of a "normal" field of view (as opposed to the "short telephoto" effect of the 45-57mm fast lenses). The existing autofocus 20mm does that too, but it's almost two stops slower than the 0.95. At this focal length, the wider aperture will make it easier to get good out-of-focus bokeh rendering.

At least that's my hope.

There are many choices for non-native fast aperture lenses out there.

Honestly.. the difference between: f/0.95, f/1, f/1.1, even f/1.2 is nominal... a "0.95" is a pure marketing push.

I don't see the value this new lens brings to the table. If it were AF, then that would be a totally different story. The market segment to which these cameras are aimed at are the typical consumer. By in large, the typical consumer will not use a manual focus lens. I think Panasonic has the right answer... high quality 100% functioning native primes for m4/3rds.
 

chylld

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OK wow. I have to honestly say that I am very disappointed by the image quality! I assumed the bokeh and sharpness would be optimised for the smaller image circle, but alas it is not.

I find the bokeh quite distasteful - it's very 'circly' and distracting wide open, like my 50/1.1. I wonder if this is a trait of CV's lens design :( However it does seem to smoothen out by stopping down like my 50/1.1:

Scene A:
50/1.1 @ f/1.1
50/1.1 @ f/2.0

Scene B:
50/1.1 @ f/1.1
50/1.1 @ f/1.7

In terms of sharpness you don't even have to zoom in to 100% to tell it's a bit fuzzy. I see a lot of ghosting as well around the vase and glove.

I think this lens has made me realise what I've known all along about my 50/1.1, and what others have been saying - fast apertures can sometimes just be a bit of a marketing push. To me there is little point in owning a fast lens if it sacrifices image quality when wide open - you would be better off with a smaller, lighter, slightly slower one. And if the micro four thirds platform isn't the ideal place to emphasise portability, then I don't know what is!

And I thought I'd be the last one here to do a 180 degree u-turn....
 

PeterB666

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I don't mind the bokeh at all. I think it is heaps better than the Noktor 50mm f/0.95. One thing strange about the boxing glove picture is that it was shot at ISO100 on the E-P2. The native ISO and best dynamic range is ISO200. The images seem as sharp as other MFT lenses, but of course with limited depth of field due to the aperture.
 

chylld

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google translate link: Google Translate

the review doesn't actually seem to say much useful stuff apart from the fact that it sharpens up by f/2.8 - very visible in the given samples.
 

noodlehaus

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The "fuzziness" or "ghosting" surrounding the gloves and vase is because of the paper thin DoF of the lens. So even though the sides/edges are quite close to the points in focus (side of the gloves facing us or wrinkles, and decor of the vase), due to the thin DoF, is already starting to blur and appearing fuzzy. This is common to all high speed lenses.

Also, a $1000 50mm (2x25) f0.95 lens is never going to be able to compare to a $10000 (notice the extra zero) f1.0 Noctilux. The extra $9000 for the Leica is not all branding.
 

dismalhiker

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Little point in fast apertures?

...To me there is little point in owning a fast lens if it sacrifices image quality when wide open - you would be better off with a smaller, lighter, slightly slower one.
I don't have the CV 50/1.1, but I do have a Canon FD 50/1.2. It has the same issues, ghosting in strong light, soft wide-open, etc. From my reading about lenses, this is to be expected. However, it's performance in very low-light is amazing. In addition, just going to f/1.4 on this lens sharpens it up a lot.

When I first received the Canon 50mm f/1.2 I was initially disappointed, but I've come to appreciate it's strengths (low light) and don't expect it to perform well under other conditions.

I agree, one has to cut through the hype around "fast glass" and appreciate it for what it is (and realize its limitations). :)
 

OzRay

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I'm not sure why everyone is saying it's a $1000 lens. It's listed in Australia at AU$895, which translates into approx US$770 (depending on the exchange rate at the time). The cost is about on par with all the fast Voigtlanders.

Cheers

Ray
 

shinobi

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Well, it's ok wide open in dim light ... but it sure is not good in daylight, as fuzzy as the 50mm f/1.1, at f/2.8 ! Even cheap legacy lenses can do better at f/2.8, let alone f/4 up where the kit lens is good too.

At any rate, it's a nice lens to have for dim light.

On the other hand, these comments are only for the pictures of this reviewer. Others may be better at taking pictures. So shall wait and see more before final judgement is passed, IMHO.
 

chylld

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all good points. my issue with the 'fuzziness' is more that the background blur looks more like a double image than a pure blur - which i find quite distracting. this correlates with the ring-like bokeh.

of course the $10k noctilux sets the standard here, so it is a good technical achievement to engineer the same speeds at a tenth of the price at relatively little image compromise... however for me personally, that compromise intrudes on image quality too much to even consider using under certain conditions.

i've concluded the best way to use my 50/1.1 is to shoot it at f/2 all the time unless it's low light, and then i'll explore through to 1.1. I do sometimes wonder whether I would have been better off with the Zeiss ZM 50/2 or even the Olympus 50/2 macro!
 

PeterB666

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I'm not sure why everyone is saying it's a $1000 lens. It's listed in Australia at AU$895, which translates into approx US$770 (depending on the exchange rate at the time). The cost is about on par with all the fast Voigtlanders.

Cheers

Ray
I think you will find the Mainline Photographics pricing will be the cheapest list pricing worldwide. Most of their Voigtlander stuff is well priced and stuff like the new 75mm f/1.8 and the older f/2.5 in M mount is quite appealing. It is nice to have a distributor that isn't out to rip off our relatively small market.
 

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