Tony Northrup's new bogus video "Micro Four-Thirds is DEAD"

[tkbslc]

Woodworking talk? Maybe instead of opening the site up to all cameras, we should just open it to ALL hobbies?

 

[Tool Crazy]

Is this the first time anyone's ever talked about anything other than photography on this site?

 

[Telonson]

Come on now, are you trying to say that Fuji can afford 2 systems but Panasonic can’t? Lol.

They could. But probably won't devote equal efforts to both systems. Have to imagine L Mount will now receive a large majority of Panasonic's attention, if not a complete attention monopoly.

Camera shipments continue to diminish. CIPA's new report is not great news.

New CIPA September shipment report: Things are still going bad for the camera business

 

[tkbslc]

Panasonic is as big as Sony, and even more diversified. They will be fine no matter what they decide.

 

[Telonson]

Panasonic is as big as Sony, and even more diversified. They will be fine no matter what they decide.

Agreed. Panasonic could afford to lose a billion per year on M43 if they so decided. But doubt that will be their decision.

As you so eloquently pointed out earlier in this thread.

I honestly can't imagine being a CEO of any diversified company right now and trying to justify continuing in the camera business.

I would not be surprised to hear of ANY system being discontinued, even one of the FF.

 

[DanS]

Woodworking talk? Maybe instead of opening the site up to all cameras, we should just open it to ALL hobbies?

You mean I could share my woodworking and metalworking videos here? I can even tie them into photography, this was a small project of mine form a little while ago.

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

 

[ac12]

I don't know, I found the lens selection for Nikon and Canon APS-C DSLR to be quite amazing. You just have to get your lenses from Tamron, Tokina and Sigma. ADmittedly, wide primes are a rarity, but now they have f1.8 and f2 zooms starting at 20mm equivalent.

Throw out Sigma for us Nikon users, if you are a sports/action shooter. The zoom ring turns in the opposite direction, which is really a PiA if you shoot any action and rely on muscle memory. I used a Sigma once, I kept turning the zoom ring the wrong way and lost shots.
For casual use, it does not really matter, as you are not time critical for the shots, and can turn the zoom ring in the other direction.

 

[spdavies]

You mean I could share my woodworking and metalworking videos here? I can even tie them into photography, this was a small project of mine form a little while ago. View attachment 691911

Nice photo of the tool, but you need to work on your wood finishing technique . . .

 

[alex66]

You mean I could share my woodworking and metalworking videos here? I can even tie them into photography, this was a small project of mine form a little while ago.

View attachment 691911

That to me looks beautiful.

 

[absolutic]

Here are my thoughts on this matter.

Tony Northrup's words, whether he intends them to be or not, have consequences. He has over 1 MLN Subscribers on youtube, which is huge number. You may point out that some popular youtubers have 2, 3, and even 5MLN subscribers and they are just silly people that do stupid human tricks. However, Northrup's channel is photography reviews, stuff that most non-photography geeks (like my wife for example) would find highly boring. So these 1MLN people that took their time to subscribe are the people that actively buy (and sometimes sell) photography equipment. Thus Tony, unlike these other youtubers that deal with silly entertaining issues, in my opinion, has responsibility to think twice and to be really careful what he says, because his words will have consequences. The most immediate consequences to m43 owners will be that your ability to resell your cameras and lenses will be reduced. There will be less people willing to buy your gear, to trade with you, because people will think twice about investing in the 'dying' system.

 

[Ross the fiddler]

I could add photos of my violin work (making & repairs etc) too, but with any craft, it isn't just about the tools, but also understanding the subject material. E.g. photography: light, composition ........ (& many more aspects), woodcraft: many things including appearance, wood hardness, grain, stability (seasoning included) & the uses for it. It becomes fairly involved with musical instruments (violins etc), because acoustical properties are an essential part of it. Anyhow, what was this thread about again?

 

[spdavies]

Someone on YouTube with over 1.1 million subscribers. And more money that most of us on this forum. Need to know anything else?

Gosh, he has a lot of money and a lot of followers!
That must mean he's a really special person who knows a lot - like our president!

 

[alex66]

I could add photos of violin work (making & repairs etc) too, but with any craft, it isn't just about the tools, but also understanding the subject material. E.g. photography: light, composition ........ (& many more aspects), woodcraft: many things including appearance, wood hardness, grain, stability (seasoning included) & the uses for it. It becomes fairly involved with musical instruments (violins etc), because acoustical properties are an essential part of it. Anyhow, what was this thread about again?

I did some work for a guitar Luther? his understanding of various woods and how they make the guitar sound was quite awe inspiring.

 

[Telonson]

The 2 most important words in Tony's video were " computational photography " ... when " computational Photography " brings M43 IQ near or equal to TODAYS FF

What Google and Apple are doing with computational photography is (almost) unique to them. Most of the other phone companies are years behind. The camera companies look to be years further afield.

Google is the world leader in A.I, and by a large margin. Not the buzzword A.I. that so many companies are wrapping their products in. Google is the real deal. They're spending untold billions on it, even designing their own A.I. specific silicon to populate their own water cooled specialized A.I. neural learning supercomputing centers.

It would not be surprising if within a year or two Google's phone hardware and software managed to achieve near full frame levels of quality for portraits and selfies. Perhaps using multiple sensors in concert, but in a form factor little different than current smart phones. If Google can achieve near full frame portrait quality, they could do to Full Frame cameras what smartphones have already done to compact point and shoots.

Google could be spending more on computational photography than all the camera companies combined. Apple the same again. There's little indication that any of the camera companies are even trying to catch up, but they're already years and years behind, and Google isn't sitting still.

So yes, technically an M43 sensor with Google's A.I. could bring a strong battle to full frame. Similarly, great A.I. could allow Full Frame to battle Medium Format. And Medium Format to battle Large Format. But who among the camera makers is investing into computational photography? From outward appearances, few to none.

 

[Holoholo55]

I don't know, I found the lens selection for Nikon and Canon APS-C DSLR to be quite amazing. You just have to get your lenses from Tamron, Tokina and Sigma. ADmittedly, wide primes are a rarity, but now they have f1.8 and f2 zooms starting at 20mm equivalent.

True, I did not consider the 3rd party manufacturers. I was just thinking of the OEMs. But, still that tells you something. CNS did not make the effort to fill out their APS-C lines, and TTS saw the opportunity and filled it. But, you know, a lot of the TTS lenses are for FF.

A quick survey. Sigma has 12 lenses in DC (APS-C) mount. They have 42 lenses in DG (FF) mount. They have 9 in DN mount, which includes Sony E mount.

The TTS lenses have kept those lines from being relative deserts. Admittedly, when I had my Canon gear, I did not invest that much in lenses, but I wasn't shooting as much as I do today with M43. In fact, far less. I've spent far more in M43 on lenses and bodies, but then again, have been shooting more, enjoying it more, and trying to put more into it. That's a distance in time as well as gear. There's no question that we have a treasury of choices in M43.

 

[speedy]

You just have to get your lenses from Tamron, Tokina and Sigma. ADmittedly, wide primes are a rarity, but now they have f1.8 and f2 zooms starting at 20mm equivalent.

Now that Sigma have the dock available for fine tuning front /back focusing & lens calibration, I'd be half tempted to have another go at APS-C. That was the thing that pushed me over to m4/3 (lack of standard/wide primes) Fuji gets it. 14mm, 18mm, 23?mm, 27mm, 35mm, 56mm, all my favourite focal lengths. Curious to see what the XT30 brings

 

[speedy]

And while I think of it, who's the secret Chelsea groupie who complained that my post was inappropriate & got it deleted? I was simply stating fact

 

[barry]

And while I think of it, who's the secret Chelsea groupie who complained that my post was inappropriate & got it deleted? I was simply stating fact

Hi, it was deleted as it was inappropriate. As were some repsonses to it.

 

[Telonson]

Tony Northrup's words, whether he intends them to be or not, have consequences.

Agreed.

Northrup was clear that much of his rationale for declaring M43 dead was based on perception. The false perception that FF is better for everything. He was clear to point out that his group continues to use M43 almost exclusively for their video work, finding it the best tool for the job.

He is of course feeding the perception of M43's demise by making this clickbaity video. But that doesn't mean he's wrong.

If sensors were still the massive portion of the bill of materials that they were a few years ago, believe he would be wrong. But sensor prices appear to have dropped sharply. So making an M43 camera that includes the same processor, RAM, IBIS, magnesium frame, buttons, weather sealing and software development might only reduce the cost by 10% to 20% below that of a full frame mirrorless version.

And if spending $1k or more on a camera, an extra 20% to quadruple the sensor size will seem reasonable to most consumers. This is my guess as to why Panasonic has (seemingly) rushed into full frame. Sony's full frame sensors were finally getting some competition, leading to rapid price reduction in FF sensor costs.

For Panasonic, the ensuing economic realities may have made the decision for them.

 

[DanS]

If sensors were still the massive portion of the bill of materials that they were a few years ago, believe he would be wrong. But sensor prices appear to have dropped sharply. So making an M43 camera that includes the same processor, RAM, IBIS, magnesium frame, buttons, weather sealing and software development might only reduce the cost by 10% to 20% below that of a full frame mirrorless version.

The new panasonic organic sensor and Global shutter could be the start of a sensor arms race, so sensor prices could just as easily skyrocket.