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Tilt Shift Lens for MFT??

Discussion in 'Adapted Lenses' started by azjsb, Jul 10, 2016.

  1. azjsb

    azjsb Mu-43 Regular

    95
    Sep 19, 2015
    I have started to do architectural photography and interested in knowing if there are any tilt shift adapters that work on MFT Olympus E-M1. I see that Rokinon has a 24mm f/3/5 for Nikon and I have read here and there about Kipon Tilt Shift adapter for MFT but have no idea how/if that really works. I would think that I would want to shoot no longer than 12mm and have the benefits of the tilt shift. Anyone have any experience accomplishing this and could give some insight and suggestions?
     
  2. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 10, 2010
    Southport, OzTrailEYa
    pellicle
    Hi

    FD Tilt Shift options/help

    next, the lens must be designed to cover a larger area, so any lens designed for 35mm is the best bet.

    I'd probably skip the shift and just go with tilt. The reason is that stitching is going to give you more for architecture than shifting will and to be honest shifting was mainly done back when there was no digital.

    My experiences are that tilting provides an effect that can not be done digitally, while shifting is essentially easily done by stitching then perspective alteration in software. Of course perspective alterations erode image quality (the same also is true with optical shifting) but (unlike with just shifting) you can use multiple images to give yourself higher pixel counts to begin with.

    Also a lens like a Panasonic 20mm is much higher quality than any film full frame 20mm focal length is, so by stitching with that you'll end up with a much higher pixel count.

    Some thoughts on tilt (posted in that above thread too) here:
    in my view ...: a different slant on things
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016
  3. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    The problem with adapting T/S lenses for m4/3 is the crop factor. You aren't going to find a 12mm T/S lens to adapt.

    One m4/3 lens that is actually pretty awesome for architecture is the Rokinon Fisheye. It sounds like the worst lens for artchitecture with all the distortion, but once you de-fish and reproject, it is pretty good!

    For example, This fisheye shot of a local temple (7.5 is so wide I often get my hand in the frame :)):

    P1130856.JPG

    Was easily reprojected to this in Hugin:

    P1130856 - P1130856-Duplicate00001.

    (Note: it was actually slightly out of focus, so don't blame the de-fish for softness)
     
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  4. c0ldc0ne

    c0ldc0ne Mu-43 Regular

    71
    Oct 9, 2012
    Try that with an X100. [emoji12]
     
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  5. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    24mm is still 24mm unless you use a focal reducer (and there are no tilting reducers).
     
  6. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 10, 2010
    Southport, OzTrailEYa
    pellicle
    Yes, but as long as the poster thinks in terms of what a 24mms means on m43 and not just think 24 means wide he'll be fine. You and I know that on m43 24mm is a normal.

    With respect to shifting image circle is the key to a lenses usefulness. If the image circle is not large then shifting will just make the image dark on one side.

    Image circle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Imagine you shift this circle relative to the frame and you can see what I mean.
    800px-Image_circle.

    This is the reason why TS-E Lenses were so much more expensive, like LF lenses or MF lenses they needed a larger image circle to to their job of shifting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016
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  7. tradesmith45

    tradesmith45 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 13, 2012
    Oregon
    Ok so I've been lurking on this discussion for a bit because I've considered this too. Here's some thoughts.

    Azjsb, what specifically are you wanting to accomplish w/ the use of a
    TS lens? As an old 4x5 film guy, we used camera movements for 2 purposes - maintain perspective & putting the focal plane where we wanted it. That last one being really important because the large format gave us so little DOF.

    But today, we have pano stitching, digital perspective correction & focus stacking that can get the same things done. Now in m43, we don't have pixels to throw away and squishing them around for stitching & corrections will always have an IQ impact but one that hopefully is not noticeable. Getting the exposures blended right will not be a cake walk. you'll need to use a tripod.

    The TS optical alternatives are not pretty though. To really do TS on m43, you'd need to start w/ something like the 1.25 lb Samyang 14mm f2.8 or an expensive Ziess 15mm for FF attached to a TS adapter. I'd worry about the tripod mount on the camera w/ that much weight hanging out front. But that would get you a short FL & big image circle to do tall buildings maybe. W/ practice, you could hand hold this.

    Forget about focal reducers, image edges get to soft.

    So before spending $$ on such a rig, give the digital options a try unless there is something you can't do that way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2016
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  8. azjsb

    azjsb Mu-43 Regular

    95
    Sep 19, 2015
    Tradesmith45 and others, thanks for writing. Based on my experimenting and exploring, I think I will attack this from a digital perspective. Shooting the E-M1 and I now understand Keystone feature. While I still want RAW output and Keystone only produced JPG, I experimented over the weekend using the Keystone for the sole purpose of being sure I had the building (for example) properly framed after perspective adjustment. Since the E-M1 will produce both the adjusted JPG and the RAW file, I can (I did) take the RAW file and adjusted with DXO ViewPoint 2 (and also tried a virtual copy with LR Vertical adjustment to see which, if either, is better than the other - a topic unto itself) and see that the results are very acceptable (to me). The "ah-ha" moment was coming to the realization that I could use the Keystone for framing....know where to stand (or zoom with my Oly 7-14mm) to get what I wanted and know it will be there when I PP the distortion out. No doubt, a TS lens would give a finer capture and I would not have to move as far away (or as wide ff) since I lose a lot of pixels in the distortion adjustment, but until Oly or Panny comes up with a TS for MFT, this is a very decent alternative, I have concluded. Thanks, again.
     
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  9. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    In the future if you do decide that you want to try a tilt-shift lens for ultrawide architecture, your best bet is the Sigma 8-16 in Nikon F mount. This way you can use a Kipon T/S Adapter for Nikon "G" and you still retain aperture control, which would not be the case if you used any other mount for this lens.

    While that lens only covers APS-C, so it is not that much larger than M4/3, it apparently works well enough. You also need to cut-off the built-in lens hood (very carefully!) or else it will vignette badly when shifted.

    (Guest Post) T/S photography by lb_supertec. - 43 Rumors
     
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  10. azjsb

    azjsb Mu-43 Regular

    95
    Sep 19, 2015
    Yikes, cut off the built in hood. I suppose fine if it really does work but makes returning under a 30 day return policy a bit tough :) if it is still vignetting after the surgery. So, thank you for this suggestion. Turbofrog, have your tried this setup? I am surprised that the APS-C glass is large enough to accommodate the shifting and tilting and still have usable glass. Would love to see some images shot with the set-up if anyone has some. Again, thanks.
     
  11. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    I haven't used it, but the link that I posted has some samples, as well as detailing the instructions a little bit more. The samples look quite good to me.

    (I'd try and find the lens used if possible, makes the sting of the cutting up a new lens a bit less!)
     
  12. pellicle

    pellicle Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 10, 2010
    Southport, OzTrailEYa
    pellicle
    that's good but you'll do better to do two things.

    * Use a slightly less wide angle lens
    * take 4 images and stitch them in hugin (or in my case PTLens which I prefer but costs)
    * perspective shift there

    this will give you better results and you will end up with an image that has more pixels too

    the camera keystone is acceptable to a point, but if you are streching the top wider then you will lose details
     
  13. dwig

    dwig Mu-43 Top Veteran

    621
    Jun 26, 2010
    Key West FL
    Actually, a shift lens on digital is not a particularily good thing. Digital sensors don't perform well when light strikes them at an angle. This is why the micro 4/3 spec tries to require telecentric or nearly telecentric lens designs.

    If you read the various threads on adapting legacy lenses to m4/3 you will see that most normal to wide (from a m4/3 point of view) focal lengths perform poorly, particularly at the edges. This is because they are not telecentric and the light striking the edges of the sensor is striking at a distinct angle. With longer lenses this is far less of an issue. A shift lens on digital could not be telecentric to any reasonable degree without some vastly complex design where the lens itself shifted the relationship between the various elements.

    You'll likely find that no shift lens on digital performs as well as a premium non-shift lens combined with a good program to do the perspective adjustment.
     
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  14. TheMenWhoDrawSheeps

    TheMenWhoDrawSheeps Mu-43 Regular

    154
    Jun 15, 2016
    There are no professional solutions for that, but quite a few other options.

    Rokinon 24mm f3.5 T/S + turbo booster.
    This Setup will cost you about 1k$ and is probably best /widest you could ever get. The sharpness should be ok, so does the versatility of using - Tilt and shift are separate and can be adjusted as you wish.

    Mirex t/s Adapter ~400€ + 35mm or aps-c lens.
    I actually owe this one in EF mount, and it's build quality is worth the money.
    Pro: build quality, 15mm shift, 10* Tilt, ef can adapt all kind of lenses - from fisheye, to macro, and all the way to tele, tripod screw on Adapter.
    Contra: tilting and shifting is done by fingerforce - no rigs, so poor fine tuning. FF lenses deliver poor edge quality/sharpness. 2x crop, so unless you have ff fisheye, you're stuck with 56mm fov. And fixed 90* between Tilt and shift.
    I kinda wish sigma Art lenses would be manual, i can imagine buying and using 20mm f1.4, or any aps-c designed fast lens(aps-c lenses are sharper on mft). But we also have zhongyi mitakon building f0.95 ff lenses, so anything could happen%)

    Kipon T/s for Nikon. Same thing as mirex, much worse build quality, stuck with Nikon only, but much cheaper.

    There are much cheaper Tilt only, shift only solutions. For roughly 30$ you could buy a Tilt adapter for ef mount, i would try it define, before buying into expensive stuff.

    1468662179183. 1468662190820.

    Sent from my D5503 using Mu-43 app
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
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  15. obsolescence

    obsolescence Mu-43 Rookie

    21
    Jan 24, 2016
    Los Angeles
    John Gaylord
  16. TheMenWhoDrawSheeps

    TheMenWhoDrawSheeps Mu-43 Regular

    154
    Jun 15, 2016
    I have considered Laowa+Speed booster once - it would give you a decend wide angle+makes the Lens bit faster. BUT! the shift on this lens isnt variable, it jumps straight to the +-6mm marks, making it impossible for finetuning. Its more Pano work feature, than real shift.
    For the same money, you might consider cheap T/S adapter+Manual Fisheye