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Tilt Shift by Sensor

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by tjdean01, Mar 5, 2014.

  1. tjdean01

    tjdean01 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    842
    Feb 20, 2013
    What if they made a camera that the sensor could tilt up and down or back and forth incrementally. Then could we have as much bokeh as full frame?
     
  2. wjiang

    wjiang Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    A tilt/shift lens doesn't give you bokeh :confused: It doesn't really even give the normal shallow DoF effect, so I doubt a tilt/shift sensor could do that either. What it does do is change the perspective and alters the plane of focus so that it's diagonal from the plane your camera is facing, rather than being in the same plane. This allows you to throw stuff wildly out of focus, but it doesn't really give the same type of broad shallow DoF that a wide aperture gives. DigiRevTV (shock! horror!) actually just put up a reasonably informative intro to how they work. The effect is more like a diorama effect, where a thin strip is in focus. I would be interested to see how 5-axis sensor tilt could be used to affect perspective though!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. b_rubenstein

    b_rubenstein Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 20, 2012
    Melbourne, FL
    Bokeh is the quality of out of focus areas, not a quantity.

    The same thing can be done with a Lens Baby
     
  4. wjiang

    wjiang Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Or by 'free lensing' a full manual lens, focusing and taking photos off the mount, if you're a bit wacky like Kai is. Can't do it with a native electronic lens as the 'MF' ring doesn't work without power!
     
  5. mjgraaf

    mjgraaf Mu-43 Regular

    53
    Feb 9, 2014
    Netherlands
    Menno
    Tilt shift and bokeh are not related, but the idea is fascinating... You still need special lenses, lenses designed to accomodate a bigger sensor, in order to prevent dark corners/sides when shifting the sensor. But we have enough of those around...

    Sent from my C6503 using Tapatalk
     
  6. tjdean01

    tjdean01 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    842
    Feb 20, 2013
    Ok, let me rephrase. What would happen if my sensor was on an angle where the center were still in focus?
     
  7. fredlong

    fredlong Just this guy...

    Apr 18, 2011
    Massachusetts USA
    Fred
    Your plane of focus would be tilted rather than perpendicular. It would be the same as tilting the lens then shifting it to compensate for the movement.

    If you look up how to use the movements on a view camera you will find out what happens and what it's used for.

    Fred
     
  8. bassman

    bassman Mu-43 Top Veteran

    678
    Apr 22, 2013
    New Jersey
    Scott
  9. wjiang

    wjiang Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    That's what you typically do with a tilt/shift, except in that case you're tilt/shifting the lens relative to the sensor, and here you are tilting the sensor relative to the lens. It comes out to the same thing really.

    When you tilt the focus plane, rather than a flat plane at the same distance being in focus, you get a diagonal plane in focus, half in front of and half behind the centre point in focus. If you say had a person and the ground for a full body shot and tilted the focus plane on the vertical axis centred on the person, you'd get a strip of focus on the person, but also a diagonal strip of focus on the ground, in a line leading from in front of the person, through the person, to behind the person. Also, the background blur on one side of the person would be different to the other, as they are effectively at different distances.

    Don't get me wrong, it can be used in great ways to isolate a subject with focus really well, but the effect is a bit different to pure aperture based blur.
     
  10. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Dara
    It's actually quite easy to get tilt-shift on m4/3. A $130 adapter with tilt and shift movements will let you achieve tilt and shift effects with almost any legacy full-frame lens.

    You can certainly do some interesting things with selective focus, but it's hard to replicate the look of a regular fast lens. That's what the SpeedBooster and other focal reducers help with.
     
  11. Petrochemist

    Petrochemist Mu-43 Top Veteran

    651
    Mar 21, 2013
    N Essex, UK
    Mike
    For focus control Tilt alone is sufficent, which brings the price of adapters down to under £50.
    Shift is used for perspective control and has no effect on focus.
    Both are useful controls but not easily used, and as you say won't really replicate the look of fast lenses.
     
  12. tjdean01

    tjdean01 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    842
    Feb 20, 2013
    Huh, interesting. Well, thanks for the replies. Another 'genius' idea I had and then I look online and realize someone thought of it decades ago! lol One of those adapters looks cool. But you're right, the images I searched for with a tilt-shift lens aren't a substitute for a full-frame with a fast tele lens.
     
  13. zap

    zap Mu-43 Veteran

    215
    Jul 23, 2012
    uk
    i think i'm developing vertigo just thinking about this concept... :eek: :redface:
     
  14. Drdave944

    Drdave944 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    696
    Feb 2, 2012
    I had a Canon 90mm tilt shift I used on my EPL-5 . It gives cool results. I posted this a while a ago but you can see what it does. If you tilt it it works good but you can also slide the lens out of the focal plane and it freaks out the light meter.
    Epl-5_Canon_TSE-90.JPG
     
  15. cmpatti

    cmpatti Mu-43 Veteran

    263
    May 8, 2011
    Berkeley, CA
    Actually, they do make cameras with sensors that tilt and shift. In fact, I used to own several. They were called "large format" and the sensors were film. It's ironic that now people are hoping to use tilts to limit sharpness, since for most of the history of photography they've been used to increase apparent depth of field.
     
  16. fredlong

    fredlong Just this guy...

    Apr 18, 2011
    Massachusetts USA
    Fred
    You can never get enough depth of field!

    Fres
     
  17. RDM

    RDM Mu-43 All-Pro

    .
    Unfortunately I have not fond an adapter that lets me both tilt and shift with Minolta MD mount legacy lenses. :frown: and I wish the Shift only adapter would cost just $130.
     
  18. Cruzan80

    Cruzan80 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Aug 23, 2012
    Denver, Co
    Sean Rastsmith
    Minolta did make a 35mm tilt shift lens. Wont help if you want to do others, but the option exists.

    Sent from my LG-P769 using Mu-43 mobile app
     
  19. Petrochemist

    Petrochemist Mu-43 Top Veteran

    651
    Mar 21, 2013
    N Essex, UK
    Mike
    There is a Canon FD to µ4/3 one on the bay for $99. Is it possible to use that & a MD-FD adapter?
    Must say I've never seen a tilt & shift adapter as cheap as $130, thats the cheapest I've found a tilt only M42!
     
  20. RDM

    RDM Mu-43 All-Pro

    Yes .. thanks for the reminder.. I know of that lens and they are always asking crazy money for it. If I had one Ii could buy the tilt adapter and that would be a TS lens. But the FL is a tad too long to be us-full to me. I would like to use one for architectural photography and ideally I would love to use my 17mm lens with a TS adapter.

    Thanks .. but a Canon FD adapter doesn't allow Minolta lenses to be adapted to it. Mounts are too different and register distances are too close for it to be possible otherwise one would have been made decades ago when both systems were still being made.