This place is about gear (I think)

oldracer

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... The obnoxious gear threads make me feel bad about photography. They make me question my gear, and feel that I have bought into a hopless dying system. They make me feel like I need to spend thousands of dollars to be "a serious photographer." ...
They don't bother me a bit because I rarely read them. Once in while I will read one if it appears to have relevance to my kit, like wondering if the GX9 was a worthwhile upgrade to my GX8s. (It isn't.)

I heard this long ago and would offer it as a good thing to remember: "Think about your favorite photographs, the ones you really love, whether yours or others. None of those photographs was taken using the camera or lens you are drooling over, just announced but not yet shipping."
 

alex66

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Yes. Assuming you're talking about a stitch pano those aren't even what I would call large prints. I have a couple of stitch panos that are printed 40"/1M wide and a couple of very nice in-camera panos printed 30"/75cm wide. The in-camera panos were shot with my 14-140mm, a lens that the pixel-peepers would not approve of. I have a number of 20" wide prints that are very nice, all shot with that same deplorable 14-140.

One thing people IMO tend to forget about stitch panos is that they are really a bunch of high-resolution small prints welded together. One of my stitch panos is of the Alhambra Palace in Granada, Spain at twilight. 40" was the limit of the printer I used. Looking at the detail I'm sure it would work easily a 60" or more.

Another thing people IMO tend to forget is that the viewing distance for large prints is also larger, so the apparent detail really doesn't change. We do not look at large prints with our noses pressed against them. At least most of us don't.

One of my "aha" moments was in a printing class where one person had a spectacular 16x20" scenic. "What lens?" "Oly 14-42mm" If ever there was a maligned lens, that is it.
Yes I have some 60x45 prints made off the older 16mp sensor (G3 and EPm3) they look fine and as you say people tend not to look at the image at the same distance as they would a 10x8. There are times when you want greater resolution though, Ed Burtynsky wants you to look at the fine details of the print and so needs as much data as is possiable others don't and it is all down to the persons choice.
 

JDS

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Well, some of this is just human nature- dudes like gear (probably many women too, although I haven't noticed as many afflicted by the disease). There are so many gear forums, machine forums etc.- cars, motorcycles, watches, guitars, computers... That's just how people (mostly guys) seem to work.

I love both aspects, the gear and the photography. Actually the three aspects, because there's the physical experience of photography (going to events & photowalks for me) and the enjoyment of photos after they're complete. I love the threads about learning how to shoot various things, people sharing their best work.

I have no problem openly starting that the gear itself is a draw for me. I'm an Industrial Designer, and I believe that Olympus is creating the best-designed cameras in the industry, save possibly Leica. I'm loyal to them because of that, and that's part of the draw for me, even if some of the specs aren't competitive. The design of Canikon cameras seems to have been done by an intern, or maybe the receptionist, they aren't getting my money no matter how capable the cameras are. I appreciate a camera that is crafted, the Pen F is an example of what happens when people who love gear design a camera and put heart and soul into the process.
 

demiro

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How do you draw that conclusion? If you add up the total number of messages on gear-oriented forums vs. photo-oriented forums, it's a lot closer than you might think, and that's not a true measure of the site's business model. To get a truer view, you'd also have to measure the number of pageviews and time on site for each forum, along with the click-thru performance of ads on each forum. That's data that you likely don't have.

In other words, your opinion that this is a gear forum is just that, just an opinion, and one based on what is either shaky presumptions or implied preference.

Personally, I think it's a forum to shoot the breeze.
I have no data. It is just my opinion, which is why I specifically wrote "I think". My opinion is based on hanging around here for quite a while. The number of image posts vs gear posts might not be that disparate, but the gear stuff is certainly what drives conversations. If you have the data to share I'm sure it would be interesting.
 

oldracer

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... There are times when you want greater resolution though, Ed Burtynsky wants you to look at the fine details of the print and so needs as much data as is possiable others don't and it is all down to the persons choice.
Absolutely. My point is certainly not that there is no use case for high-resolution photography, just that for most of us here virtually any M43 camera and lens is "good enough" for almost all, maybe all, of our actual use.

The other use case, articulated her at least a couple of times, is basically "I like my toys." I get it. I have a Hammerli 208S target pistol. Erich Buljung set the pistol world record with that model in 1983 and it still stands. For me to own and shoot that gun is objectively ludicrous. But it's a lovely machine and its next owner will buy it from my estate.

High resolution does lead you down the rabbit hole, too. Full frame, digital backs on view camers, Hassie and Mamiya medium format, ... And that is before we get into special purpose industrial and scientific imaging.
 

drd1135

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I don't really get complaints like this. There are lots of image threads on this forum. If you don't like gear threads, don't open them. It's really that simple. Gear threads get more posts because folks get into arguments about all sorts of minutiae. I look at gear threads when I'm interested and I ignore them when they get repetitive or contentious. I will say the following, however. Create a forum where gear talk is forbidden and see how long it lasts. There may be a few out there, but online forums are like bars and their patrons will talk about what they want.
 

ddekadt

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They don't bother me a bit because I rarely read them. Once in while I will read one if it appears to have relevance to my kit, like wondering if the GX9 was a worthwhile upgrade to my GX8s. (It isn't.)

I heard this long ago and would offer it as a good thing to remember: "Think about your favorite photographs, the ones you really love, whether yours or others. None of those photographs was taken using the camera or lens you are drooling over, just announced but not yet shipping."
You have more willpower than me :).
 

John M Flores

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I have no data. It is just my opinion, which is why I specifically wrote "I think". My opinion is based on hanging around here for quite a while. The number of image posts vs gear posts might not be that disparate, but the gear stuff is certainly what drives conversations. If you have the data to share I'm sure it would be interesting.
It sounds like gear stuff drives conversations for you. But your thread title attempts to be definitive about the overall purpose of the forum.

Do you mind if I change the thread title to "This Place is About Gear For Me"?
 
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JDS

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High resolution does lead you down the rabbit hole, too. Full frame, digital backs on view camers, Hassie and Mamiya medium format, ... And that is before we get into special purpose industrial and scientific imaging.
When I was in college, my roommate was a professional studio photographer. He looked down on all those pathetic medium format cameras, almost always shot using a 4x5 plate camera. His dream was 8x10, but it was just out of reach... The image quality from that 4x5 was insane though, he shot a lot of my portfolio at the time and I still have the positives. They look amazing... But i guess some people have to settle for their weak and worthless little Hasselblads.
 

agentlossing

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Yes, I said it. We're all about the gear. Buying it. Selling it. Complaining about it. Comparing it to other gear. Wondering and predicting what new gear will be like. Talking about people who talk about gear. Lusting after gear. And more.

I don't say this to be critical of this site or anyone who participates. I point out the obvious in an effort to minimize the general outcry that inevitably crops up when Nikon's new mirrorless FF gets announced, and or when Olympus's latest seems like something of a dud. There is no need for everyone to lose their fuzzy little minds because threads are blowing up. We are about the gear. So we will talk about it ad infinitum, and often ad nauseum. Just let the fire burn out. Complaining about the gear talk just fans the flames.

Because gear heads will be gear heads. Bless us all.


*** I realize there is quite a bit of photo sharing here, and even some talk about technique. And that some members really are about photography first. That is all good, and I don't want to minimize it, but the gear talk pays the bills, I think.
In a sense, this forum has to be about gear, because it's named for the format, Micro Four Thirds. Also, the members fairly strongly voted against opening it up to different formats recently. So that tells you that the forum's identity is as a gear site.

That said, if you want to see what a real gear site looks like, look at DPR's M4/3 forum. Granted there's a fair amount of photo sharing over there but mostly to talk about technical aspects, not process. I think this forum walks the thin line very well, given that gear gives us our identity as a site, but process gets talked about fairly often. It's about as good a balance as I've seen on today's internet, which is generally pretty bad.
 
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all shot with that same deplorable 14-140.
The Oly 14-150 ll is my usual go to lens, but some were from my old 4/3 9-18, I love that lens too. I'm not that demanding of prints, they're very reasonably priced where I get mine from and I generally get standard quality paper. The uses vary between a bit of room decoration in a decent-ish frame, or I give portraits to family. Of the seven I had printed I only used four, these are just scenes of Bodmin Moor and they will go on the walls of our holiday home there when I visit in the spring, the rest will just be stored away.
 

demiro

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It sounds like gear stuff drives conversations for you. But your thread title attempts to be definitive about the overall purpose of the forum.

Do you mind if I change the thread title to "This Place is About Gear For Me"?
Yes, because that was not my point. If that being my opinion is not implied, and you somehow can't live with the title, then please add "I think" to the title.

I also think that if you think gear talk isn't the engine that makes this site go you are a bit delusional. No offense intended.
 

The Grumpy Snapper

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It's not just about the gear.

It's also a great source of amusement. At least the amount of bullshit posted by internet "experts" keeps me amused.
 

Andy H.

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I don't really get complaints like this. There are lots of image threads on this forum. If you don't like gear threads, don't open them. It's really that simple. Gear threads get more posts because folks get into arguments about all sorts of minutiae. I look at gear threads when I'm interested and I ignore them when they get repetitive or contentious. I will say the following, however. Create a forum where gear talk is forbidden and see how long it lasts. There may be a few out there, but online forums are like bars and their patrons will talk about what they want.
Yes, and it's unfortunate many are trolls/shills/morons that also cover rest room walls with their thoughts!
 

John M Flores

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Yes, because that was not my point. If that being my opinion is not implied, and you somehow can't live with the title, then please add "I think" to the title.

I also think that if you think gear talk isn't the engine that makes this site go you are a bit delusional. No offense intended.
You can believe that all you want but with out solid data proving your point I'm not convinced.
 

JDS

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I read somewhere in a photography blog that the gear posts generate most of the traffic, they want to do more technique and sharing but gear drives clicks. By that standard, I think the way to think of this site is its an oasis of healthy balance by the standards of the internet. With lots of gear, because humans.
 

Reflector

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To be fair in certain types of gear threads tend to also have a lot of back and forth where we see controversial posts like "135 format will make all formats obsolete because of fabs/market trends" which conveniently ignores how much of a big mover APS-C is still among many other points in reality as well as blatant misinformation. There's less of "is x or y better" or "does x lens work out" in regards to weight (20 or less posts) versus the closing towards a hundred page long threads where that kind of an environment allows for those kinds of posts to thrive...

Photo threads? Not so much, just a post of a single shot or several...

So it seems that mu-43.com is still more about photos rather than gear, at least in my mind.
 

Listener

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You can believe that all you want but with out solid data proving your point I'm not convinced.
This is your forum. It seems to be becoming just like DPR. Do you want to run a forum like that?

Photographing wildflowers, insects visiting them and wildlife has been a source of joy in my life. I visit this forum to learn about new gear and about technique and to share my good feelings about photography. Gear is necessary but it is using that gear to capture what I see that makes it worthwhile.

I don't look at this forum as often as I used to and I don't post much. The endless ranting by ignorant people who claim to speak for everyone drives me away.
 
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