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'This Applies To All Camera Brands & Types'

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by RT_Panther, Aug 20, 2011.

  1. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    "Those who had high self-brand connections (SBC)—that is, those who follow, research, or simply like a certain brand—were the ones whose self esteem suffered the most when their brands didn’t do well or were criticized. Those with low SBC remained virtually unaffected on a personal level.

    The residual effect of this is that those with high SBCs tend to discount negative news about their favorite brands, and sometimes even ignore it altogether in favor of happier thoughts."

    That Explains It: Canon vs. Nikon Debate Linked to Self-Esteem
  2. carpandean

    carpandean Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Oct 29, 2010
    Western NY
    While this is very true, the alternative is to actively switch during each iteration when a different brand gives you something that you want. However, with interchangeable lens systems, there is a very high switching cost (lenses, interface, accessories.) The internet may help minimize this cost, but it's still very high.

    However, to your point, despite being a Lumix guy right now, I am keeping an eye on the Nikon mirrorless system, Sony's SLT and NEX, and even Olympus. The NEX-7 looks like the type of body (though a little too NEX-y to me) that we've been calling for, which hopefully puts pressure on Panasonic to get the GF7 right. Otherwise, people (especially MF users) may switch.
  3. drizek

    drizek Mu-43 Veteran

    Aug 5, 2011
    I think Olympus and Sony in particular are prone to "fanboyism" because they and Panasonic have basically pioneered all the biggest innovations in digital SLRs over the past few years. So even if the current product from Oly sucks, you can still like Olympus because chances are, the "next big feature" is going to be found in the EP-4, not the next Canon or Nikon flagship.

    I agree with carpandean though, the NEX-7 seems like it could be a perfect camera, but it also seems like it will be extremely expensive. The C3 replaces both the NEX3 and NEX5, the NEX7 seems like it will be in a whole new price class. I thought it might be worthwhile to get an NEX3 for cheap and then invest in glass until the NEX7 comes down in price, but then I realized that there isn't any glass worth investing in on NEX anyway.
  4. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    I use the tiny PEN System Cameras because I have nothing I need to compensate for. :D 
    • Like Like x 1
  5. carpandean

    carpandean Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Oct 29, 2010
    Western NY
    @ 2:00 ...

    [ame=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAXGpFxUoRE]Sony NEX-C3 Review - YouTube[/ame]
  6. Perhaps they just want to enjoy their cameras as they are...
  7. avidone

    avidone Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Jun 24, 2011
    Rome, Italy
    it seems to me that, in general, brand marketing is about catching emotional responses, not logical ones... this is why so much goes into design, advertising, and brand "image"

    interesting to me is what I saw, flipping through a recent, I think German, photography magazine-- in essentially each and every category of "ranked" listings, all the scores were between approx. 87 and 94 out of 100. Nothing above and very, very little below. This says to me that what we have available on the digital photography equipment market now, at least from the major brands, is a lot of not perfect but still very good stuff, which differ from each other only by minor degrees.

    Sure the competition keeps innovation and quality up, but you can see why marketing then needs to rely on emotional responses.

    The good news is that it is difficult to make a really bad choice. If you pick from the major contenders you will end up with some pretty great equipment, which in each case will probably have its quirks, but still offer excellent performance.

    Then it is just up to YOU to come up with a good photo out of this... ;-)
  8. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    Does the article address the very odd phenomena where, you gather with a bunch of others who are using the same brand, and you are trying to share interests, ideas, and tips, and people who favor other brands keep butting in to tell that group their camera, oh I dunno, doesn't have the greatest most fantastic whiz-bang sensor in the world?

    And they keep doing that. Over and over again. Regardless of how much the larger group says "we're not interested. We're just trying to learn to use what we have?"

    What is the psychology behind that behavior, I wonder. To me, it's that behavior that invites defensiveness. It kind of follows this:

    Fred: "Hey, Mary, I've been trying this new camera you and I both have. What do you think of that new lens"
    Mary: Well, Fred, I do like it, but it's kind of expensive. How about the cheaper version."
    Fred: "I could see that, but you can't focus as close, which is something I want to do."
    Stan: "Your sensor STINKS"
    Mary: "Yeah, I have to agree on the close focus, but the corners are sharper. Any way, I've been trying some B&W conversions"
    Fred: "With Silver EFEX?"
    Stan: "No seriously! Did you see the DXO marks!?!?!"
    Mary: "Yeah, I got a free trial. Liked it so much I bought it"
    Fred: "I knew you'd like it. Well, I'll try the new lens, and post some samples after I get it"
    Mary: "That'd be cool"
    Stan: "Why are you wasting your time on that camera. The one I found is SOOOOOOO much cooler. And I like the look and feel, and DXO says it's superior, so your cameras stink and you are wasting your money!"
    Fred and Mary: "Go Away!"
    Stan: "Man, you guys are such fanboys! Why are you so defensive? Don't you want to learn The Truth!"

    Could you imagine if this happened at a party, where people were face-to-face? It's such anti-social behavior, it's almost unbelievable, except it happens all the time in on-line forums.

    I don't know about anyone else, but posting to online forums is not my day job. Quite the opposite. Besides NOT getting paid to do it, I'm often posting when I really should be doing something else. Because of this, I want to filter out the content I need to read to get to what I am looking for -- i.e. how to be better with my chosen style and gear. I don't want to get locked into endless, stupid debates, or constantly search for the next toy just because it's "better". I want to learn to get better at taking pictures with my chosen system. Not be assaulted by someone's new agenda on their new toy.
  9. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    IMHO (keywords here beng "IMHO") what you've stated is generally attributed to digitals. From my experiences in film forums, threads/conversations are totally different :smile:
  10. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    Just complete conjecture: but there's very limited (none at all?) innovation in film gear anymore, and most people who are doing film are no longer beginners, but experience people interested in the craft and the old gear. There's little new coming down the pike to get people excited.

    When I shot all Canon, I did see the Canon/Nikon thing a bit, but I must have missed the more massive flame wars. What I did (unfortunately) get to witness was the NEX invasion into m43 discussions. For some reason, many were not content to let people with m43 cameras shoot away and grow in their tools. They had to constantly drop DXO mark scores, etc. into m43 conversations.

    It's quieted down, as m43 has rolled out real lenses and NEX has lagged a little, but I'm sure it'll pick up again with new NEX gear on the horizon. If something completely new came along (I dunno -- holographic photography or something) then NEX and m43 wars would stop, as they'd be inconsequential to the next new thing.

    Perhaps it's the front line gear-hoppers that are the most egregious? Maybe they're the ones that like to stir trouble? But that wouldn't hold, as we have a number of folks on this site who have tried lots of cameras, but are positive and helpful. (I'll use Ray and Don as two examples).

    Honestly, I think the division is whether the bulk of people are posting on technology or on craft. Those who don't pay attention to craft (or perhaps are just terrible at it), get hung up on gear, and it becomes personal, and that can be where brand identity comes in. Those more interested in craft (i.e. Ray and Don in my example), it seems to me, stay far more open to gear choices, and talk about how they use the gear they chose. Film forums are generally inhabited now by people who care more about craft, because the gear is too tedious otherwise!

    The newest technology (just because it's new) always attracts the gear heads, who can overwhelm the still, small voice of the craftsman.

    Just my opinion, and a hypothesis in process.
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Linh

    Linh Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Apr 14, 2009
    Maryland, US
    lucky you, heh. Though, I've never seen it in public. I have friends and family that jest sometimes because they're all nikonians and I'm the only canon shooter. Though, now I've just changed that from canon to m43, heh.

    However, have you ever witnessed the lighting forums on POTN and the mention of "alienbees"? I swear people sometimes come out guns blazing, heh
    • Like Like x 1
  12. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Of course! :smile:

    Going back to film though. I *think* that due to Lomography (like it or not) there's a limited resurgence in film. I'd also debate that the mindset of disposable film camera shooter isn't that much different than the mindset of digital point and shooter.

    However, once you branch off into interchangeable lenses, IMHO, the mindset begins to differ....
  13. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    Oh, too true! I forgot about the POTN lighting forums. I asked a couple of lighting questions there, and then ran for cover!
  14. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    Just a question -- I really have no idea -- buy who shoots disposable film cameras anymore, expect my 75 year old mother in law, who is not likely to make it to this forum.

    If they are shooting Lomo, or Holga, or Polaroid, then I would say they are after craft, not gear. Gear hounds want the best, fastest most perfect results. Craftspeople will put in the effort to get results that are off from perfect, but has personality and expression. Again, just IMO.
  15. My forays into POTN were tentative at best, though the image threads seemed safe enough.
  16. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    1) Who shoots disposable film cameras?
    I don't know personally but I still see them being sold at lots of places

    2) Lomo: It's interesting to see what they're are doing with types of films....Now granted, most of their concepts are not new to the experienced film photographer, but I do find this type of film to be interesting...

    RedScale Film
  17. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Legend Subscribing Member

    Feb 19, 2010
    Well, I wouldn't be surprised if there are lots of folks (maybe especially young folks?) who don't give two shakes about gear, but think it's fun to shoot with film again. Wouldn't be surprised at all but, again, they're not likely to make it to a forum (or care that a forum exists, for that matter).

    p.s. love your link to redfilm, but it seems again to me that (based on the galleries) people are more interested in the shots they are taking and the output, rather than the camera being used. Nice gallery works. I wonder if that stuff would be able to/provide any benefit to B&W or other monotone conversions.
  18. Grant

    Grant Mu-43 Veteran

    I have very low SBC as I don't give a hoot about the brand of cameras I use. I only care about my final images and images do require me to have a certain type of camera equipment. I shoot with a GF1, a D300, F5 and a Mamiya C330 as each fill a different need. All cameras have been superseded by newer models but none of these newer models offer significant advantages to how I shoot. If history repeats itself I will not replace these until they die. I am slightly locked into the Nikon line as I have a significant amount of high end glass. I have not invested a great deal in µ43 glass so when my GF1 dies I will not be locked into the µ43 system, although I will again consider it. The Mamiya is about to be retired.

    I like to talk about cameras and how to use them but I am most interested in the art of photography. I will not take part in pixel popping camera threads. If you have an ideas that is really divergent from mind I will ignore them unless your images are exceptional and then I will really take heart in what you are saying.

    For me the camera is nothing but a tool the images is what is of prime importance.
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