The thiswillneverhappenbutIwi****would thread.

Discussion in 'This or That? (MFT only)' started by flash, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Gordon
    I reckon that m4/3 needs to do something to stun the photographic world. Something so wild that everyone in the industry would have to take notice, Some things are close (Olympus IBIS) but not quite there. So Mr Olympus here's what you need to do.

    1. Make a weathersealed camer with a multi aspect foveon sensor. Imagine 15MP in 3:2,3:4 and 16:9 for landscape photographers. Make it looklike a mini E-5. I rekon that this could save both Olympus and Sigma in one go.

    2. Make the same body with a regular Sony sensor. 20MP. Exactly the same. Every button and dial.

    3, Release a 7-14, 12-45 and 35-100 pro zooms. All f2.0. Include a hood.

    4. Make the same as above but f4. Best optics only.

    5. release a 150mm, 200 and 300mm. Again all f2.

    6. New FL50R with radio controlled remotes ala Canon.

    7. Market the crap out of 1-6.

    Anything I've missed?

    Gordon
     
  2. ~tc~

    ~tc~ Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Oct 22, 2010
    Houston, TX
    I don't understand why they haven't done #3 already with the 43s lens models
     
  3. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    The new PDAF on Canon 70D
     
  4. tdekany

    tdekany Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 8, 2011
    Oregon
    One more - make it affordable.
     
  5. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    :tongue:yeah, that's the one thing we all want but pretend to mention last
     
  6. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Gordon
    Is that proven yet? So far attempts at on chip PDAF have been hit and miss (hit=Nikon 1. Miss=Canon mirrorless). I havn't read anything that tests the 70D on chip focusing yet. Although I do agree in principle that the tech is very exciting.

    Gordon
     
  7. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Gordon
    Affordable is a very loose term. I'd rather see great value than just cheap. Especially at the expense of quality.

    Gordon
     
  8. monk3y

    monk3y Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 14, 2013
    in The Cloud...
    Steven
    Great Value is the word indeed!!



    Sent from my GT-N7100 using Mu-43 mobile app
     
  9. jyc860923

    jyc860923 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 28, 2012
    Shenyang, China
    贾一川
    Hi Gordon

    AFAIK Canon has developed a totally different sensor for that, read dpreview's article here and you'll find out.

    Canon might be doing something great after such a long time
     
  10. flash

    flash Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Apr 29, 2010
    1 hour from Sydney Australia.
    Gordon
    Yeah. I read that and it's really promising. But the conclusions are preliminary based on a preliminary firmware. I hope it works and if it does that they don't patent the hell out of it.

    gordon
     
  11. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    This might stun the photo world in the sense that people would wonder why anyone is still wasting their time with Foveon sensors. They're an interesting side trip, but their market penetration is virtually nil, and the technological trade-offs don't appeal to very many people. Spending millions developing this would be a quick trip to oblivion.

    As far as the body, we pretty much have that already, but with even better ergonomics. It's called the GH3. And 20 MP is a waste of time. The difference in resolution between 16 and 20 MP is trivial, but the cost in terms of DR and high ISO performance is real. I would like to see an 18 MP multi-aspect sensor that matches or exceeds the Sony sensor in performance, though.

    Do you have any idea how big those lenses would be? A 12-45 f/2 would be at least as bigger and heavier than an APS-C 17-55 2.8. Probably close to a FF 24-70 f/2.8 And a The 35-100 way bigger than that. And people complain the GH3 is too big! (Oh, and these lenses would be anything but 'affordable'.)

    This would at least offer the advantages of small size. I'd argue that the current 7-14 f4 is pretty much on par with all but the very best FF ultra-wide zooms. And for a mid-range zoom, why not 12-45 f/2.8-4.0. It wouldn't have to be any bigger than a fixed f/4, I don't think. Ditto for the 35-100. Personally, I'd like to see a 50-150 f/2.8 zoom. Sigma makes one for APS-C, and the size isn't too unreasonable.

    Again, these would be huge. A 300 2.0 would be bigger than a FF 300 f/2.8, and just as pricey. Have you ever handled a FF 200 f/2.8? A 200 f/2.0 would be even bigger. If I'm going to carry a lens that big, I might as well put it on a big body, because the weight difference won't add up to much. Ditto on lack of affordability. Make them f/2.8s and they become more reasonable.

    This might have some value. Multiple flash is, I think, most widely used for studio work, and the size & weight advantage of m43 is much less important in that role. It could have value for on-location fashion, real-estate and portrait work, though.

    Just marketing the crap out of what's available today would, I think, make a huge difference. I can only recall seeing one mass-market magazine ad for Panasonic m43, and a few ads for the OM-D when it was introduced, but nothing recently. The typical camera buyer doesn't know anyone but Canon or Nikon make 'serious' cameras, and won't see any m43 gear except the occasional EM-2 and GF6 if they head into a camera store. Run a major ad campaign comparing the size of the OM-D and G6 to something like a Canon 60D, but produces the same quality output, and you might open some eyes.

    In the US, at least, m43 is a case study in how not to do product marketing.
     
  12. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    Essex
    John
    All cameras eventually become affordable, given time, patience and the march of new technology. So even if we cannot afford the latest today, we can at least look forward to using it in 2 or 3 years time. :biggrin:
     
  13. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    True of cameras, less so of lenses, unless you extend the time parameter a lot.
     
  14. dav1dz

    dav1dz Mu-43 Top Veteran

    926
    Nov 6, 2012
    Canada
    10-150 mm f/1

    Make it tiny.

    Make it $499.

    Don't forget to profit. :biggrin:
     
  15. jloden

    jloden Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2012
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    I agree with all your points, but I have to partially disagree on the marketing front. I hear this from a lot of people on this forum, but I also get American Photo, Popular Photo, and Outdoor Photographer delivered every month. All three of them have full page Panasonic ads, and even two-page spreads. I've seen some Olympus PEN ads as well but more for the GH3 and G5/G6 than the Olympus stuff.

    There's marketing being done, it's just competing with decades of entrenched Nikon and Canon marketshare and a mindset that says "serious = DSLR". Not to say they couldn't do more on the marketing front, but it's certainly not like they aren't putting in some effort. By far the biggest sales problem mirrorless cameras have as a class is that the only people that know they exist are the pros & enthusiast that pay attention to camera magazine ads :wink: Market share will only approach DSLR numbers when people can walk into a camera shop, big box store, or Wal-Mart and buy a m4/3 camera.

    Eventually I think the mindset will change and more people will see mirrorless cameras as viable alternatives, but it'll likely be an uphill battle for a long time. DSLRs have been there a long time and they're improving simultaneously, so it's a moving target. It'll take time, and Olympus & Panasonic will need to keep delivering on key milestones like they have been (fast f/2.8 zooms, pro bodies, comprehensive lighting options, and other pro accessories/features).
     
  16. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    Yeah, I've seen m43 ads in photography magazines, too. But that's not where the vast majority of camera buyers get their information. The ads need to show up in places where soccer moms and vacationers will see them, in mass market publications and on TV. And on internet sites devoted to subjects other than photography.

    And marketing isn't just about advertising. Ads are only one facet of marketing. Oly and Panasonic need to offer incentives to get the cameras into stores. Even camera stores have little in the way of m43 gear, and big-box retailers have next to none. Retailers love to do co-branded marketing, where their store name is prominently featured in manufacturer ads. About once a month my local newspaper (the Washington Post) has co-branded ads from a local camera store chain (Penn Camera) featuring either Nikon or Canon products. I've never seen one for Panasonic or Olympus. Stores like Best Buy and Target would be delighted to feature a Panasonic spread in their weekly flyers, but Panasonic's going to have to pony up some cash to get that kind of exposure.

    Pana and Oly could design a standard in-store display, and offer retailers incentives to install it. They could provide training materials and spiff to store employees so they can say more than "umm, Nikon makes good cameras....". They can offer rebates to stores that sell a certain dollar volume of their cameras. These are ALL things that other manufacturers do, but I see no sign that Pana and Oly do so.

    If I'm a retailer, the easiest thing to do is push Canon and Nikon. They are well known, consumers don't need convincing, and I know I'm not going to get a lot of questions about those brands, nor many returns. If you want me to push something else, you've got to give me a reason to overcome my inertia.
     
  17. jloden

    jloden Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2012
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    True, that sorta goes back to what I was saying; soccer moms and vacationers definitely need to know these cameras exist, but the big thing is they need to be able walk into a big box store where they do their shopping and buy one. That requires both presence in the store, and combating the entrenched idea that a DSLR is always better (so the sales clerk doesn't automatically try to sell the Canon/Nikon).

    EDIT: haha, looks like you edited your post and ended up saying pretty much the same thing :tongue:
     
  18. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    Yep, I'm constantly posting, and then thinking "Oh, I forgot to say....." :biggrin:

    One more thought on marketing. Apparently the Nikon 1 is the top selling mirrorless camera (according to another post on this forum). No one outside of Nikon would claim the N1 is the best in any single category, much less overall. Part of this is clearly the Nikon name (although Canon's name doesn't seem to have translated to EOS M sales), but I think that a big part of it was that Nikon advertised it pretty heavily on TV, plus the fact that you can't walk into a store that sells cameras without seeing one.
     
  19. dav1dz

    dav1dz Mu-43 Top Veteran

    926
    Nov 6, 2012
    Canada
    Superbowl ads. Seriously. People watch these things afterwards to see what they missed.
     
  20. RobWatson

    RobWatson Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Asthon Kucher did the Nikon 1 now we need Demi Moore to come out with a "Ashton is a punk" style ad featuring MFT with her running around with the kids, on the red carpet, etc with AK in the background looking confused (he's good at that).