The Test of OM-D EM-5 + Panasonic 20 mm banding problem

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by st3v4nt, May 16, 2012.

  1. st3v4nt

    st3v4nt Mu-43 Veteran

    317
    May 26, 2011
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    There's been a thread about banding in OM-D EM-5 + Panasonic 20 mm, there's a lot of speculation about the cause and inconclusive sample picture. There are also a claim that some user did not get the symptoms, but some did including me. While we wait the official comment from Olympus and perhaps the firmware update will resolve the issue, I post my finding regarding the problem so that new OM-D user will not surprised if the same problem happen to them.

    1. The settings :
    OM-D EM-5 with firmware version 1.1 + Panasonic Lumix 20mm with firmware version 1.1. Other lens and camera for comparison are: Olympus mZD 45mm, Panasonic Lumix 14mm, and Olympus PEN EPL-1

    2. The Condition:
    Object consist of white painted brick wall with small item to help focusing under low light condition indoor lit with fluorescent lamp. The camera is being handheld and IS 1 active. No flash, No AF illumination lamp. Mostly at ISO 6400.

    The comparison of OM-D + Panasonic 20 mm ISO 2500 and ISO 6400 held vertically.

    P5140646x.

    P5140649x.

    Notice how banding appear in ISO 6400 but not in 2500.
     
  2. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    I am not at all denying the issue, and I hope Oly fixes it, but I am wondering -- have you seen this issue only in high ISO, underexposed test shots, or has it shown up and ruined good pictures in real life shooting? And, I'm assuming you've only seen it with the 20mm?
     
  3. st3v4nt

    st3v4nt Mu-43 Veteran

    317
    May 26, 2011
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Test comparison of OM-D using 14mm, 20mm, and 45mm all at ISO 6400

    P5170694x.

    14mm at ISO 6400

    P5150670x.

    P5150666x.

    Notice how banding appear on all over 20 mm sample but not in 14 mm and 45 mm.
     
  4. st3v4nt

    st3v4nt Mu-43 Veteran

    317
    May 26, 2011
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    See all my sample pictures...:)
     
  5. st3v4nt

    st3v4nt Mu-43 Veteran

    317
    May 26, 2011
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    The Panasonic 20 mm mounted in PEN EPL-1 at ISO 3200, no banding appear.

    P5161062x.

    P5161061x.
     
  6. st3v4nt

    st3v4nt Mu-43 Veteran

    317
    May 26, 2011
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    The Panasonic 20 mm mounted in OM-D under ideal lighting and normal uses at ISO 200

    P5110630x.

    P5110631x.
     
  7. st3v4nt

    st3v4nt Mu-43 Veteran

    317
    May 26, 2011
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Panasonic 20 mm mounted in OM-D under ideal lighting and comparison between ISO 200 and ISO 10.000

    P5110643x.

    ISO 200

    P5110645x.

    ISO 10.000

    Feel free to comment and give your opinion, especially if you have tips about settings how to avoid the problem.
     
  8. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    So, it's underexposure on the 20mm in high ISO that triggers the issue? So odd to be lens related.
     
  9. Redridge

    Redridge Mu-43 Regular

    151
    Apr 17, 2012
    I wonder if this has anything to do with the rattle snaking going on.... not physically with the aperture, but electrically. Maybe, they are related somewhat... but only new code can fix that. Just brainstorming.
     
  10. Luke

    Luke Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jul 30, 2010
    Milwaukee, WI
    Luke
    I gotta admit that I feel like an idiot. I don't see it, but I'm a little tired and not looking very hard.
     
  11. RobWatson

    RobWatson Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Can you correlate the width/spacing of the banding to shutter speed? Maybe IS is working extra hard/fast at 20mm F.L. but not so fast/hard at 45mm F.L. so at some 'window' of frequency the noise from the IS motor drives finds its way into the image? Stopping down the aperture and upping the exposure would change the banding pattern in such a case and might give a clue.

    Wild guess ...

    Actually, shorter F.L. should mean the IS runs slower compared to longer F.L.
     
  12. st3v4nt

    st3v4nt Mu-43 Veteran

    317
    May 26, 2011
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    It appear so...
     
  13. st3v4nt

    st3v4nt Mu-43 Veteran

    317
    May 26, 2011
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    do you mean the clicking in PL 25mm? But this is 20 mm it doesn't have rattling noise...AFAIK
     
  14. st3v4nt

    st3v4nt Mu-43 Veteran

    317
    May 26, 2011
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Will try the suggest settings ASAP
     
  15. silversx80

    silversx80 Mu-43 Veteran

    229
    Apr 27, 2012
    North Carolina
    Could you compare IS on v. IS off as well? I'm also curious about shutter speed and aperture.
     
  16. st3v4nt

    st3v4nt Mu-43 Veteran

    317
    May 26, 2011
    Jakarta, Indonesia
    Will do ASAP ...
     
  17. Redridge

    Redridge Mu-43 Regular

    151
    Apr 17, 2012
    From what I understand, rattlesnaking is prominant in the 20mm 1.7. Just because you don't hear the rattlesnake doesn't mean that its not happening electrically. Its obviously a bug and wondering if the banding is just another side affect of this bug.
     
  18. dre_tech

    dre_tech Mu-43 Veteran

    314
    Jan 31, 2012
    So now the aperture blades closing and opening quietly and normally is called rattlesnaking?

    If so, my lens rattlesnakes beautifully to compensate for changes in exposure.

    Regarding the banding I was a little disappointed to see the thread on DPR, the 20 is one of my favorite lenses, and I should be getting the E-M5 soon.
     
  19. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    On your GX1, this is quiet. On Olympus bodies, there is a bit more sound. It's still nowhere near as loud on the 20/1.7 as it is on the 25/1.4. The former is a soft clicking, while the latter is more of a rattle.

    Either way, I'm sure that the aperture blade movement is not causing this banding. The theory put forward about the 20 being poorly shielded and causing some sort of interference seems more plausible. If a fix is possible, I wonder whether we should expect it from Olympus or from Panasonic.
     
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  20. tonyjuliano

    tonyjuliano Mu-43 Regular

    I'm fairly sure (maybe hoping is a better word?) that we will eventually see a fix for this. I've seen a very similar issue before that was rectified, and the fact that this banding comes on so abruptly, right at 6400 ISO, leads me to believe it is fixable.