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The NEX pancakes are coming, end to the M43 lens size advantage?

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by lenshoarder, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
  2. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    It depends. Any zoom pancake is going to be a collapsible design like the Lumix X 14-42, which probably means no mechanically-linked zoom. Not everyone will like that. Also depends on whether the lenses perform well.

    Regardless, MFT lens size advantage isn't going to end because of two zooms. The Oly 45/1.8 is considerably smaller than the Sony 50/1.8, and a similar relationship exists for other lenses in the respective lineups as well.
     
  3. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    Until we see how these lenses perform, I think its a bit premature to say they're "the end" of anything. And without built in EVFs, Sony has nothing that really competes with the OMD or G and GH cameras. And nothing that really interests me. M 43 still has the most complete lens lineup in mirrorless, bar none.
     
  4. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    Just like the APS-C by the laws of physics has a sensor advantage, so too does m43 have a lens size advantage. Add in Oly IBIS, and Oly lenses can become quite small (no IS in the lens required).

    NEX has some catching up to do. 75/1.8. 45/1.8. 14/2.5 (better than NEXs 16, though not as wide). 20. 12-35/2.8, 35-100/2.8 etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
     
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  5. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
  6. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    The NEX 7 has a built in EVF as will the NEX 6. As for the more traditional format of the G and GH cameras with the O/EVF hump, in my mind the Alpha A3X and A5X cameras fulfill that role. Internally, they share a lot with the NEX line. Sizewise, they aren't much bigger than the GH line. When people say they want a NEX with a EVF but not the 7, I recommend they look at those.

    Compare camera dimensions side by side
     
  7. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    The alpha and e-mount lenses don't swap natively. There's still the need for an adapter, and a very large one for CDAF, and the DSLR lenses are still pretty big.

    The death of m43 by NEX has been fortold for over 2 years now. I think both systems have a place, and I don't see this announcement killing an advantage, though it is an important release for NEX. (actually, anything other than another body is important for NEX).
     
  8. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    Your link brings up the a33. They don't make that small a body any more. The a37 and a57 are bigger and much bigger, respectively.
     
  9. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    Here it is with the A37. While the picture looks chunkier, the numbers stay the same as the A33. The A57 is bigger.

    Compare camera dimensions side by side
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    As seen here, the existing NEX lenses are about the same size as the non-pancake M43 lenses, particularly compared to the Panasonic ones. The smaller M43 lenses are the pancake/collapsable ones. Thus it would be interesting to see how the NEX pancakes compare. Based on the size of the non-pancake ones, they should be comparable in size to the M43 pancake lenses.

    Mirrorless Camera Size Comparison: NEX5, NX10, E-P2, E-PL1, GF1, G2
     
  11. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    I handled both the GH and the a33/55 and found them all too small for my hands. I thought it was a good thing they made the a57 larger.
     
  12. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    The 16 is a weak lens. I had it for almost a year. You can make a lens tiny by making it weak. It also is f/2.8 instead of 1.7. The Panny is also 20mm vs. 16, but the equivalent FOV is miles different. Compare the 16 to the 14 (14 is smaller), and the 14 is STILL a better lens and faster, and still has IS when on an Oly body.

    Look at the Oly 45/1.8 vs. the NEX 50/1.8.
     
  13. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    The better the NEX system becomes the better for all of us, I think. Whether you switch to NEX, or stay with m4/3s, or use both, competition is generally a good thing. It may push Panny and Oly to do more, or maybe create some downward pricing pressure.

    So let's keep a close eye on the goings on at Sony, and keep a constructive conversation going about it. Win/Win.
     
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  14. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    There is supposed to be a Sony 35/1.8 released (per the rumors). For their sake, I hope it's ~$500-600 and can challenge the PL25.
     
  15. Steven

    Steven Mu-43 All-Pro

    May 25, 2012
    USA
    I didn't think it was physically possible for Sony to match the smaller size of the 4/3 sensor lenses, but if it is, then it would be a much bigger competitor than it is already.
     
  16. drewbot

    drewbot Mu-43 Top Veteran

    702
    Oct 21, 2011
    Toronto, ON
    Also remember APS-C at 3:2 has a very wasteful image circle compared to m43 at 4:3.
     
  17. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    Now that I'm shooting mainly adapted lenses, I am really tempted to pickup an NEX kit in the future. I would love an NEX-5N with VF and adapters. I'm going to wait on the new models, so the older models drop down in price.
     
  18. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    IMHO,
    It's not the size of the lens that the MFT community needs to be concerned with but rather the quantity.

    Again IMHO, MFT biggest selling point is not the size of the system, but rather the sheer quantity of native lenses that are available. If/when the NEX system develops a sizeable base of native e-mount lenses, then the NEX system will be much more attractive to DSLR users who prefer an APS-C body.

    Speaking from personal experiences, I picked up a new NEX-F3 precisely because the 50mm ƒ1.8 and 55-210 lenses became easily available - I'm now looking forward the NEX native e-mount 35mm fast prime to be released hopefully at Photokina...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    If NEX released a 35mm/1.8 (which is the rumor) and, I dunno, pick another favorite lens. Maybe a 16-50/2.8. Do you think m43 would dry up and blow away, or would it lose it's dominance, as another system settles into being a major player?

    Another way to ask the question -- did Canon kill Nikon or Nikon kill Canon? (the answer being, of course, that they co-exist)

    If it really is that the slightly larger APS-C sensor is destined to be king, then is m43 doomed? Is that really realistic? Have we forgotten the performance, build and output of the OMD and associated lenses? If NEX released a 35/1.8 and a 16-50/2.8, would the OMD cease to be a fantastic camera? Would the OMD + PL25 suddenly be garbage?

    If you have 75% market share of a $100m market, and only 40% market share of a $500m market, in which scenario are you better off? Competition and additional options, yes. Smaller market share for Panny and Oly, sure. But remember -- the TOTAL market for mirrorless is GROWING. It's DSLRs and 1/1.7" sensored cameras that are dying. NOT m43.
     
  20. Promit

    Promit Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jun 6, 2011
    Baltimore, MD
    Promit Roy
    I would definitely be looking at NEX hard at that point, though price would matter. But, NEX doesn't touch the GH2 for video or the OMD for build and usability (7 comes close but no cigar). So I am not really sure how one would slot into my life. Sony also still needs to work on AF.

    Of course if Oly does a sealed 12-60, Sony will exit my mind instantly.