The Mirrorless Market

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by OzRay, Feb 19, 2014.

  1. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Arising from another thread, I was wondering why the mirrorless market in the US and to a lesser degree in Europe, is so poorly received. I've seen charts etc on worldwide sales and the Asian market is where mirrorless dominates, I don't know where it resides in the Australia/Pacific region. It's been discussed by photography bloggers like Thom Hogan, but I've not seen any personal views from those who reside in the US and Europe to try and understand what it is that makes large DSLRs so popular and mirrorless systems as desirable as herpes.

    It may be hard to gain an understanding from people on a mirrorless forum, but you must have connections with friends etc who have views on mirrorless systems and why they spurn them. Does anyone have first hand or anecdotal feedback on what makes mirrorless systems such poor cousins to DSLRs, despite their many advantages and very few disadvantages, especially in the US? Fuji made some interesting comments about the status quo: http://www.dpreview.com/articles/5988185050/fujifilm-interview-the-only-way-is-to-keep-innovating. Also some interesting comments about the importance of high end products, as I alluded to in the other thread.
     
  2. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Since you asked....
    I see tons of Sony mirrorless systems in my neck of the USA woods here & my local brick n' mortar store dropped Panasonic & picked up Fuji and Sony instead.
     
  3. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Any views on what attracts, or not, people to those cameras?
     
  4. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    With Fuji, I'd guess it's style & ergonomics.
    With BOTH Sony & Fuji, a dealer can point to an APS-C DSLR and say:

    "It's got the same sensor & same image quality in a smaller package"
     
  5. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    Yes, I guess m4/3s constantly lives under the shadow of the giant APS sensor.:rolleyes:
     
  6. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Yes it does.
    And as a dealer, if I can make that comparison & get a sale, I'm going to do it.
    Same sensor/Same image quality in a smaller package to the average buyer is a no brainer....
     
  7. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    Marketing in the USA can be so ineffective sometimes. You have to basically hit a moving bullseye in the dark, over your shoulder, to get into the public consciousness. Canon and Nikon didn't exactly do that, but they were there, producing DSLRs, when the collective consumer consciousness looked at their compact camera images and thought "this looks like crap." Suddenly these DSLR things were the magic bullet. Now, demand has streamlined DSLR production down to the point you can walk out of Best Buy with a brand new Nikon with kit lens for $369, so why would people be interested in an OMD EM1 for three or four times the price? Mirrorless cameras just don't offer the value for most people that cheap DSLRs do. Olympus and Panasonic shoot themselves in the foot by iterating so frequently, because by the time, say, the G5 or EP3 got inexpensive, new models had already forced them out of the brick and mortar and big box stores. It's a losing market strategy except for nerdy camera people like us. They have got to see that before they'll get the US market.
     
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  8. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Another good point!
    And like it or not - low prices speak volumes!

    Don't believe me? Look what happened with the recent refurbished Olympus sale.....
     
  9. bassman

    bassman Mu-43 Top Veteran

    680
    Apr 22, 2013
    New Jersey
    Scott
    Perhaps better image quality for the DLSR, generally better ergonomics, better battery life, lower cost. What's not to like? Nikon D7100 cheaper than E-M1.

    Combine that with a design which must be cheaper to manufacture and you stop wondering why consumers think the mirrorless stuff is overpriced.
     
  10. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I agree that's how the marketing appears to work with many, but I'm curious when it comes to the more discerning or knowledgeable, even those who have had enough of their Canon Rebel or the like, or the brick that eventually tends to stay at home because it's so unwieldy. Remember, I'm not talking about m4/3s mirrorless cameras, but DSLRs vs mirrorless in general.
     
  11. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Understood. But I still see quite a few NEX bodies around here....
     
  12. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    Adding: And those mirrorless A7/A7r bodies are picking up momentum in the USA too....
     
  13. Itchybiscuit

    Itchybiscuit Photon Mangler

    512
    Dec 10, 2013
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Ivor
    Sure, price is one issue and I think another (you did ask for anecdotal evidence) is good old snobbery. When I'm wandering around Glasgow with my Panasonics or Sigma DP1 and encounter another photographer wielding a Canon or Nikon, I can almost hear the sneer.

    Obviously I can't be serious about photography or image quality else I'd be using a 'real' camera. I've actually seen other photographers laugh when I roll up and start taking pictures within feet of them.

    It's a funny old world.
     
  14. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    I had that as well when I started doing news and sport. But oddly enough, after a while, some came over from time to time to look at my gear and talk about it and other things. What I think happened is that photographers do a bit of comparing of other's work from the same football games (by looking at rival newspapers), for example, to see what others are getting. The results were anything but poor and when shots get a double page spread, they can no longer sneer at the equipment being used.
     
  15. RT_Panther

    RT_Panther Mu-43 Legend

    May 4, 2011
    Texas
    I've NEVER seen snobbery here in my neck of the USA woods....
    In fact, in my local photography group, no one gives a rats @ss about what kind of gear one shoots with.....Our group has compact point and shooters up to full frame DSLR & film shooters....
     
  16. Itchybiscuit

    Itchybiscuit Photon Mangler

    512
    Dec 10, 2013
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Ivor
    Aye but those folks are professionals and results don't lie. I'm strictly amateur hour so if you're not following me on Flickr then you can't compare photographs. Besides, I would blame any shortcomings on this photographer and not his equipment. :smile:
     
  17. Itchybiscuit

    Itchybiscuit Photon Mangler

    512
    Dec 10, 2013
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Ivor
    Ah, but this is the UK - we invented snobbery. :wink:
     
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  18. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
  19. Just Jim

    Just Jim Mu-43 Top Veteran

    941
    Oct 20, 2011
    tbh, there's me with my elderly G2, one NEX amongst a group of Canon and Nikon's with a visiting Asian group had at my wife's church, a very tiny amount of interest in mirrorless at my camera club when the A7/A7r was released. Safe to say... here in CT where people have disposable income, no one cares enough to buy. Although I do think exactly 2 members of my club will buy Fuji's within the next 2 years while upgrade path's for everyone else is still Canon and Nikon. Within the PPA ranks, there was some discussion of mirroless by our own member Michael Gowin, but I doubt that lead anywhere as that conversation died within a week when considering how to monetize "hybrid" photography came up. WPPI, we shall see what TWiP can do... although the host's bias is like QVC/Informercial's. That combined with Panasonic stating they'll chop off unprofitable divisions, which Lumix is due for trial for in 2015... not looking good.
     
  20. T N Args

    T N Args Agent Photocateur

    Dec 3, 2013
    Adelaide, Australia
    call me Arg
    What stops our ยต4/3 cameras having software that talks to the phone in our pockets via bluetooth and allows instant uploading to facebook etc, showing the whole process on the rear screen? Or even sets the rear screen as a virtual phone screen for the purpose?