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The Meyer-Goerlitz Trioplan 100mm f2.8 is back...available in m4/3 mount...buuuut....

Discussion in 'Native Lenses' started by LowriderS10, Oct 3, 2016.

  1. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    Canada
    That's right!

    The classic (and legendary!) Trioplan is back in all its three-element-oh-so-many-aperture-blades glory. And it's available in m4/3 native mount. However...it's not cheap! 1,499 Euros not cheap.

    GET YOUR TRIOPLAN F2,8 100MM NOW! | Meyer-Optik-Goerlitz

    I love this lens, and have wanted one for a long time...but...nearly $1,700 USD for a manual focus lens that's neither blazing fast, nor amazingly sharp (I know, that's not the point, but still) is too rich for my blood.

    But...it's cool to have more choices in native mounts, and good to see manufacturers rolling out m4/3 with Canon, Nikon, and Sony.

    Is anyone getting it? And if you are...please, please post photos! :)
     
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  2. Andym72

    Andym72 Mu-43 Veteran

    330
    Mar 4, 2013
    Reading, UK
    Why not buy a vintage one instead? The most common mount the vintage ones came in was M42, the original Pentax / Praktica screw mount, and Fotodiox amongst others do a mount adapter for just a few dollars.

    Theres no mention that the Kickstarter funded remakes will have lens coatings, so I don't see they are going to be any better than the vintage models.

    P.S. I think that bubble bokeh is ugly!
     
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  3. skellington

    skellington Mu-43 Regular

    171
    Mar 4, 2013
    Atlanta, GA
    Keith
    And in any event, I'd get a Canon or Nikon mount and use an adapter. No reason to have them build a m4/3 one in, which would limit resale options if it is purely manual.

    (Nikon could be adapted to any of the other bodies including Canon..)

    And then you could use a speed booster if you wanted!
     
  4. Giiba

    Giiba Something to someone somewhere

    273
    Aug 19, 2016
    Burnaby, BC
    Wouldn't it be nice if they made a lens with a m4/3 image circle as opposed to slapping a m4/3 mount on a FF lens?
     
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  5. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    Canada
    I'd say people would shy away from vintage because:
    - They're old...which means there's a good chance there's some fungus, micro scratches, oil on aperture blades, etc...even lenses that LOOK clean to the average person, a closer inspection reveals many faults.
    - Most that I see for sale are actually Exacta mount...and pretty much EVERYTHING needs to be adapted...not an issue for me, but if you shell out $1,000 for a lens (which is where Trioplans start roughly) a lot of people don't want to bother with adapters. You'd be surprised at how hard of a sell adapters are for many people (I buy/sell crazy amounts of lenses, and the ignorance/fear around adapters is incredible!)

    P.S.: That bokeh is a matter of taste. I remember when these lenses were a hidden gem, and they were like $150...I should have picked one up back then...it's worth that much for me...but $1,000-1,500...I'll pass. :D
     
  6. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    Canada
    It would, but...economies of scale, right? :p
     
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  7. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    Canada
    It really depends...I get your point, and I would adapt as well...but...people are generally pretty scared of adapters and confused by them. It's honestly surprising! Also...adapters add complexity, weight, bulk, etc...I don't mind it for adapting lenses, but I can see how someone else would.

    What would be cool would be an Tamron Adaptall-2 kind of system! (Or user-replaceable mounts!)
     
  8. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    It is truly difficult to find a lens that performs as poorly as the 100/2.8 Trioplan in any respect, but there are hundreds of vintage Soviet and German lenses on eBay that will give you a very similar look for a tiny fraction of the price. Better still is to try and pick them up from a flea market or antique shop, where you will likely be able to take them away for $5, as opposed to the ~$100+ that eBay sellers may ask now that Trioplan fever has engulfed the internet.
     
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  9. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    Canada
    Trioplan has gone from about $100-150 to around $1,000 on eBay in just a couple of years...it's incredible!

    I agree with you...there are plenty of alternatives out there...I've got a few great ones (Soviet-made Jupiter 37A...135mm f3.5 with 12 rounded blades), and my eye on a few more...I'll happily let the people with deeper pockets fight for the Trioplan. ;)
     
  10. skellington

    skellington Mu-43 Regular

    171
    Mar 4, 2013
    Atlanta, GA
    Keith
    Well, the lens will essentially be a Nikon mount with a "built in" adapter for m43. The total size will be essentially identical, and the weight will probably be very comparable including the adapter.

    Basically, the Nikon (among the most popular options) has the longest native flange distance, so you can put an "adaptall" in between it and the other mount types.
     
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  11. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    And if you're into it for the vintage eye candy, you can find real stunners like the Steinheil Munchen Argus Cintagon 100mm/f3.5 for well under $100.

    One of the prettiest lenses ever?

    steinheil-munchen-cintagon-100mm-f-3-5-lens-and-hood-argus-c44-mount-germany_222096027022.
    4a86e31ec368c.
     
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  12. Andym72

    Andym72 Mu-43 Veteran

    330
    Mar 4, 2013
    Reading, UK
    Well since the idea is to recreate a lens (or at least an optical formula) from 1916, to be true to the original lens it's got to be 135 format.
     
  13. Giiba

    Giiba Something to someone somewhere

    273
    Aug 19, 2016
    Burnaby, BC
    If recreating something I think some license to deviate is in order. Like the lens coatings someone else mentioned, it would be a nice addition considering the asking price.
     
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  14. TNcasual

    TNcasual Mu-43 All-Pro

    Dec 2, 2014
    Knoxville, TN
    That's pretty.

    I'm partial to my Agfa Color Telinear 130 4:
    19068177351_7196a0231c_c.

    and it's results:
    29847237121_1b8fa65920_b.
     
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  15. LowriderS10

    LowriderS10 Monkey with a camera.

    May 19, 2013
    Canada
    That's beautiful!! I love the industrial look of 70s Soviet lenses too!
     
  16. gnarlydog australia

    gnarlydog australia Mu-43 Top Veteran

    967
    Feb 23, 2015
    Brisbane, Australia
    Damiano Visocnik
    how did you adapt that lens to fit Micro 4/3?
     
  17. gnarlydog australia

    gnarlydog australia Mu-43 Top Veteran

    967
    Feb 23, 2015
    Brisbane, Australia
    Damiano Visocnik
    That is very interesting. So what lens will give you the distinctive "soap bubble" effect of a triplet design like the Trioplan?
    I have a few Russian and German lenses and while bubbles are relatively easy to achieve, none have the signature white edge on the speckled highlights bokeh, they are just mere circles.
    Of course, to some bubbles are bubbles, in that case no point discussing further I guess...
    And BTW, what is your definition of "performance" in a lens? sharpness alone?
     
  18. Turbofrog

    Turbofrog Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 21, 2014
    It's not my copy, but I'm realizing I should perhaps rescind that point. I'd thought it was an Exakta mount, as the other Steinheil lenses are, which is easily adaptable these days. But that one is an Argus C44.

    With the Meyer Optik fever pushing up prices, your best bet for that style of triplet aberrations on a budget is probably the Pentacon AV 80mm 2.8 projector lens, though it doesn't have an aperture. Only around $30-40 though. The Diaplan 100/3.5 projector lens is similar, though I'm not sure it has a helicoid that goes with it. Leitz Dimaron 100/2.8 is another in that same philosophy. For "real" lens, the Helios 44 also has similar bokeh that is not too far off. The Sigma YS 135/2.8 has defocus control to allow overcorrection of spherical aberration, giving you the soap-bubble effect as well. The Nikon DC lenses can also give you the same thing, but they're obviously more expensive "real lenses." Not the same price as the Meyer though, I guess...

    I actually find a lot of old fast 50s even show the really hard-ringed, nervous bokeh - even my Super Multi-Coated Takumar 50/1.4 can be provoked into it in the right circumstances.

    As a broad point, I guess there is no such thing as a bad lens if it gives you the effect that you want. But in terms of the Trioplan, it is really very soft, yes, but also glowy, hazy, and has really harsh bokeh due to the overcorrected spherical aberration. The only thing that it does well in terms of conventional lens "performance" is relatively low lateral CA and coma. And it has low contrast, though I don't necessarily consider than a pro or a con on a lens, personally.

    Mainly, it just kind of offends me that they are trying to convince people to pay well over $1500 on the strength of marketing. The reason that lenses of this description are so hard to find these days is that no manufacturers at the time thought that people would want them. Triplets were soft and hazy and they simply weren't used on anything but the cheapest 135 format lenses. They often weren't considered suitable for photographic use due to their resolution, hence their more common application as projector lens. If people find that special bokeh is that important to them, I guess I shouldn't judge. But Meyer-Optik must have the highest profit margin of any photographic company in the world right now...
     
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  19. gnarlydog australia

    gnarlydog australia Mu-43 Top Veteran

    967
    Feb 23, 2015
    Brisbane, Australia
    Damiano Visocnik
    OK, here is my take on the Triplet design.
    I have the Trioplan 50mm f2.9: it gives me the white-rimmed bubbles, but mainly wide open. That lens is sharp-ish wide open and rather decent stopped down.
    21408008505_e45a61f751_b. Leaf and bubbles_c by gnarlydog, on Flickr

    Similar but a bit different results with some projection lenses (unfortunately not so sharp)
    27069827545_c1cc081f08_b. Soap bubbles over ivy_c by gnarlydog, on Flickr
    Bubbles also with a Pentax-110 50mm f2.8 from the miniature SLR
    25748652860_24a999acf1_b. Beer o'clock_c by gnarlydog, on Flickr

    I have the Helios 44-2: bubbles and swirls but not hard rimmed. The Helios 44-7 gives me harder bubbles and is sharper but the bokeh is not as double-line creamy as the 44-2.
    25807159716_7285a5319f_b. Bubbles from Helios 44M-7_c by gnarlydog, on Flickr

    I also have the Diaplan 100mm f3.5, mounted on bellows. I was hoping for bubbles like the images I see of the Trioplan 100mm f2.8 but they aren't there. Faint bubbles and much harder to achieve... I guess the lens being of smaller aperture looses the effect. It is sharp tho.
    I think the critical point is: wide aperture triplet. I have a Russian projection lens (called Triplet) that works on bubbles but it is not sharp and a bit too fuzzy.
    I am currently waiting for another Russian projection lens where I have seen samples and is promising...

    What's with all the obsession with this stupid bubbles? :doh: well, I kind of want something different than what the iPhone can give :rolleyes:
    I am not that excited about documenting with my images but more into creating a feel or look that evokes emotions. Some call it bullsh*t, I understand it's not for everybody.
    When I used to photograph professionally architecture I used to think the same: calling it "art" when one can't get a sharp image. :laugh1:

    Now that everybody can get a sharp image with his/her phone the challenge lays elsewhere, and boy, it's so much harder to get and artistic image for me than just a sharp/properly exposed one.
    The knowledge of when to use the lens' particular character in the right situation/light/subject is what makes inspiring images, the rest to me is just hacking for the sake of doing some experimentation without a specific goal in mind. I do a lot of the latter and only occasionally I create something that is worthy of attention. I slowly start to understand what does what and how to use it effectively (unlike senseless abandon of Instagram filters to make a poor image worse :eek:).

    As far as charging way too much for some old faulty lens design and make it hip, I agree... hmmm, I could think of a camera brand that uses a similar tactic... the one with the red dot? :tomato2:
     
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  20. gnarlydog australia

    gnarlydog australia Mu-43 Top Veteran

    967
    Feb 23, 2015
    Brisbane, Australia
    Damiano Visocnik
    ah, forgot to mention:
    If you still have that Cintagon 100mm f3.5 for Argus C44 and you don't mind a bit of tinkering, it can be adapted to Micro 4/3: it's a very good lens, and not too bulky
    I was wondering if you had a different method than mine...
    I used a M39 to M43 adapter, removed the "silver" ring and then used a M42 macro extension glued (with JB Weld, reversible)
    My lens has a "native" feel to it, solid and no protruding bulky adapters.

    25769974346_e7befe883f_b. Cintagon 100mm f3.5 by gnarlydog, on Flickr

    or, shown here the Cintagon 35mm, using a M42 to M43 (short adapter) and extension ring. I like the other version better

    24886297509_425ee0c5e8_b. Cintagon 35mm adapted to M43 by gnarlydog, on Flickr
     
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