The Last Bee ...

Discussion in 'Nature' started by MarkB1, May 19, 2013.

  1. MarkB1

    MarkB1 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    546
    Oct 30, 2010
    Australia
    ... for a while, maybe. It's been a bad year for insects with all the rain here but a few did show. This is the Blue Banded Bee just before it warmed up and woke up, native to Oz, with Blue Salvia and reflective in BG.

    p1080156-mark-berkery.
     
  2. the_traveler

    the_traveler Mu-43 Veteran

    204
    Sep 12, 2011
    Columbia, MD
    Lew Lorton
    Quite nicely focused and sharp throughout altho it does seem inordinately saturated and there are sharpening halos everywhere.
     
  3. MarkB1

    MarkB1 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    546
    Oct 30, 2010
    Australia
    Why inordinately? Not to your taste? Fair enough if so, but nothing is blown and I don't hold that if something looks flat to the eye it should look the same in a pic. I rather 'present' nature than replicate it. At a glance some of your own pix look like you do similar saturation levels mine sometimes are - though I didn't see any of your macro work that would tell me what you know about it.

    I love the colours in this shot, it's just a shot, though I can see how the reflective behind the blue salvia could cause some issues for the purist in some areas. It's not sharpening halos you see (on the right) as the original unsharpened has the same issue. Probably more to do with micro movement at 1/80ss of a hand held shot against particular areas of the reflective.

    See how there is no 'halo' at the left of the twig the bee is gripping. That's the end that is being held by my left hand while lens rests on same for max stability shooting at slow SS's in the field, the other end could have moved ever so slightly, or it could just be something arising out of the behaviour of the reflected light at the left. ???
     
  4. the_traveler

    the_traveler Mu-43 Veteran

    204
    Sep 12, 2011
    Columbia, MD
    Lew Lorton
    I see that a positive comment doesn't seem to arouse the same level of emotion as an expression of a different taste; fair enough.
    I don't have to do macro to have an opinion however I will remember to keep it to myself in your threads.
     
  5. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Keith
    Why so much defensiveness? If you don't agree with the critique offered feel free to disregard it, but please don't turn it into an attack on the person who offered it.

    The critique attacked neither you nor the image, but the same cannot be said for your response.

    sent from my phone using the Mu-43 app
     
  6. MarkB1

    MarkB1 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    546
    Oct 30, 2010
    Australia
    Oh my! But you didn't express a different taste, only purported to as can be seen in your linked site regarding saturation, and you got it wrong about sharpening 'halos'. So one of your criticisms was contradictory and the other incorrect. Only because you have no experience of actually doing macro and feel the need to opine as if it is fact. Nothing wrong with opinion when it is obviously that and not posing as analyses.

     
  7. MarkB1

    MarkB1 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    546
    Oct 30, 2010
    Australia
    And how exactly is my response an attack on the poster?

    When a critique is obviously contradictory and just plain wrong should it be left to stand? I don't think so.

    And all I did was to point out how.

     
  8. Livnius

    Livnius Super Moderator

    Jul 7, 2011
    Melbourne. Australia
    Joe
    You've posted many fantastic images here Mark of many different insects, but I have to say, this Blue Banded Bee is my my favourite thus far.....that little guy is spectacular.
    Perhaps I don't pay enough attention, but I don't think I've ever seen it in Melbourne, where in Oz are you ?
     
  9. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Keith
    To each his own, but whenever you start bringing a critic's own work into your rebuttal, you begin to approach (if not cross) the line of civility IMNSHO.

    As far as a critique being "wrong", I'm not sure I subscribe to anything with regard to photography that is so "black and white" as that. The opinion is the opinion, if you don't agree with it you should feel free to say so. However, just as I don't believe any image is necessarily "good" or "bad", I feel that completely dismissing a criticism offered in good faith is closing the door on a path to improvement.

    sent from my phone using the Mu-43 app
     
  10. MarkB1

    MarkB1 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    546
    Oct 30, 2010
    Australia
    It's one of my favourites too Joe, flawed and all, where I use a reflector to enhance the lighting with blue salvia in BG, not entirely successfully but good enough.

    I am in Bris and the map of Locations has them down your way too. The females nest in soils they can work in areas that are somewhat protected from the weather and near water and food sources - native or otherwise. I usually find the males just before sundown at the edge of grass fields near water roosting at the tops of dried out plants/grasses. They look like dark blobs from any distance and if you move quietly and deliberately they are approachable for a few shots before the light is gone.

    Of course, once you know where they roost you can be there before they wake in the morning and get setup for a shot or two with the constantly varying background light a real boon at the right settings and using fill flash.

    Any good gardener that doesn't use insecticide will be able to show you some.

    (or
     
  11. MarkB1

    MarkB1 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    546
    Oct 30, 2010
    Australia
    Hey. So you can't exactly substantiate your claim I am attacking the poster? Well enough, then say so, you got it wrong too.

    He said it seems too saturated while his own are same as. That deregulates his purported 'critique' to mere opinion, contradictory to his purportedly contrary taste. That's just dishonest. And to opine the 'halos' are from sharpening without any knowledge of the shot is further cause for refutation.

    You don't let the false posing as the true stand or you risk becoming what you allow. YMMV

    I outlined the facts of the shot that the poster got wrong and taught him something about macro but neither of you seem to get that, being so eager to take offence and offer further opinions.

    And don't be silly. You have no idea what faith the opinion was offered in unless you know the guy. And dismissing or refuting false criticism is as necessary as listening to someone who knows what they are talking about.

    Who said anything about black and white or good and bad? There is correct and there is incorrect when it comes to facts.


     
  12. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Keith
    These are not "facts" we're discussing, they're "opinions". Since there is no standard of which I am aware for saturation, any discussion of whether a particular image is "oversaturated" is therefore an opinion. Furthermore I don't see how the saturation of another unrelated image is germane to the discussion of saturation in this particular shot.

    I've offered no personal opinions on this image, though I believe I have commented favorably on your work previously. At this point I am unlikely to offer any further input as you've clearly established that you don't value it. I'm sorry to have wasted your time (as well as my own).
     
  13. MarkB1

    MarkB1 Mu-43 Top Veteran

    546
    Oct 30, 2010
    Australia
    You fail to admit when you are wrong about me attacking the poster and offer some obfuscation to squirm out of your responsibility for your words. Have it your own way then but don't tell me we are not discussing facts when that is all I am discussing. If you have no interest in the facts you can only be interested in emotion or imagination. You can't have it both ways. And I am not interested in your emotions and if that is all you have to offer it certainly won't be missed.

    The standard for saturation is whether the colour is blown or underexposed, whether there is any detail in it. Anything else is a matter of taste, dogma or opinion and as we have seen the posters taste is the same when it suits him while he implies it is different for some unknown reason, merely to opine?

    The fact of where the halos come from is also being discussed but you have no interest in that either. And a few other facts too.

    You started off critising me for a non existent attack on the poster and went from there to defending your error and attacking me.

    So what is it you are doing here, exactly?

     
  14. DeeJayK

    DeeJayK Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 8, 2011
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Keith
    Go ahead and try to bully me all you want. I won't admit I'm wrong simply because I don't believe I am. You're entitled to hold an opposing position, but that doesn't make you right (which is sort of my ENTIRE point). That said I'm not going to spend any more time discussing this with you as you clearly don't choose to keep the discussion civil. This is the final comment I'll make in any of your threads, because this sort of "debate" is simply not worth my time.

    Feel free to have the last word. Enjoy your life. :)
     
  15. jklfrdfed

    jklfrdfed New to Mu-43

    3
    Apr 19, 2013
    I will never ever swat at another bee again..and I am so sorry I ever did...
     
  16. fin azvandi

    fin azvandi Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 12, 2011
    South Bend, IN
    Going further OT...but to me the OP's first response to the critique does not read as defensive. The so-called "sharpening halos" are just something that happens in macro photography and I would have tried to clarify that as well if someone had incorrectly described it as over-sharpening in one of my pics.

    The subsequent back-and-forth illustrates why it is often so difficult to have these kinds of discussions online. It's just too easy to read different emotions into the same words and the conversation degenerates.
     
  17. the_traveler

    the_traveler Mu-43 Veteran

    204
    Sep 12, 2011
    Columbia, MD
    Lew Lorton
    If I realize that I have offended someone inadvertently by the way I phrased something, I try to make amends by apologizing for the miss-communication.

    Since I took his remarks as defensive and intending to offend - and it was clear that I did - and he only insisted that he was correct to speak the way he did, I can only assume that he didn't care that he was offensive. He tried to diminish my opinion by looking at my work and using that and my inexperience as a lever; that in itself is offensive.

    Whatever the quality of his work, I no longer care about being involved with him.