The grass really isn't greener.

interesting read, thank you  

your title is bang on, the grass isn't always greener!

I spoke to a guy in Auckland just passing by - i asked him about his m9 because I had never used a rangefinder before, and he had it in and out of service 3 times since he bought it 1 year ago!   unlucky!

 

Lost my first response, so this one will be shorter. I've just purchased a used M8; I wanted to get an M9, but I have other priorities first. I've been through this same soul searching and research as you have.

Leica makes cameras ten at a time. Ten. There's no huge production line the way there is with other products; they're essentially handmade.

First, you really don't know, based on internet complaints, how reflective that is about complaints as a whole. It's always good to take these things with a grain of salt until you get the measure of each and every complainer. I know from my own work in software QA that complaints are not always what they seem. That said, there do seem to be some issues.

Second, l-camera-forum is a far more established community with a lot of professional photographers, who have more equipment on average, and may be harder on it, too. They are also more demanding of exactitude. I can't find the thread, but I remember one person who sent two bodies and seven lenses to Leica for service because some of the lenses focused slightly differently on one body than the other.

Third, I have the home office phone number of my Leica rep and I haven't bought any new products yet. Try that with Olympus.

My GF1 went through New Zealand and Australia in my handbag, where it lives every day. I have only a neoprene bag around it.

The cracked sensor isn't a cracked sensor, but an IR filter over the sensor. As mentioned in that thread, it'll spontaneously show up. I don't know the cause, nor have I researched it deeply, but I can think of two non-manufacturing reasons it could (theoretically) happen: a) dropping the camera, though it'd have to be a hard jolt; b) using an incompatible collapsible lens. BTW, this is an issue that couldn't occur on the M8 as there was no IR filter, which caused its own set of complaints.

Nor have I heard about shutter issues; some have perceived shutter lag, but it's a perception, not a reality, and some are not used to the speeds that digital writes at (especially onto a slow card) vs. film.

The only image issues I've heard of are corrupted JPEGs on bad cards that can occur with any camera, though there was one person I recall who had trouble with multiple cards.

Most of the battery issues seem to be related to third-party batteries; this is, in part, due to the relative difficulty finding Leica batteries.

The others -- well, maybe I haven't read as exhaustively as you, but I haven't seen reports of them.

As for the comment, someone using a ~40 year old camera is one that's probably been through its initial adjustments, and Leica's undoubtedly had to work out some of the kinks in a new product just like anyone else.

 

That certainly presents the other side of the argument, Deirdre. I feel for you, losing an even longer response than that. It's happened so often to me that now, if I'm planning a long post, I type it first in my word processing software (where I can regularly save what I've written) then copy and paste to the forum when I've finished. :smile:

 

I see people with all kinds of technology skill levels trying to diagnose problems, so I come to it with the skepticism I can't seem to turn off when I get home from work.

I also have some respect for how difficult it is to catch everything, no matter how hard one tries. I have no idea what things are actually like in Solms, but Leica's a small company that'd fit in a couple of buildings of my own workplace.

I've tried hard to figure out: is there an issue that would significantly affect my enjoyment of an M9? I think probably not.

My reason for holding off on the M9 wasn't the reported issues, but rather that I realized I could buy a used M8, a decent recent lens, and a new computer for the price of the M9. I still plan to get an M9.

 

I expect there aren't really any problems with the M9 that can't be solved just by turning it off and then turning it on again ...

 

....and tapping it firmly on a table several times if that doesn't work.

 

Maybe the problem is the fact it is essentially hand assembled. Robotics have reached a level of precision and consistency that frankly we mere mortals cannot match.

I can believe if they automated the process they could make more at higher quality and lower cost.

 

I'm not certain it is sad - the mechanical quality historically of Leica's is superb. But as parts get smaller to make room for all the new electronics and features something has to give. Robots can do certain jobs better and more consistently than humans, especially on a micro scale. If the same people spent the time on quality control instead of building that would be value added on top of what other vendors do and could possibly bring back that Leica reliability. Not hand-built cameras but hand-tested and certified. At those prices knowing someone spent time shooting, testing all aspects of the camera, would give me a warm fuzzy and then some. Include test results and a note from the tester and even some of the test pics.

On the other hand robotic customer service cannot match people and obviously Leitz has that down in spades.

 

I have neve had a bad issue with Leica service in over 40 years. Even when my digilux had the sensor changed, it was back in 2 weeks. The M film cameras never took even a week turn around.

The M9 has it's issues but still is a great camera.
If I had the funds, I'd have the camera in heartbeat.
Some of you from RFF know the issues I had with the M8's. I wouldn't go there again but the M9.... In time...

Ray, the grass is greener on the other side. Why, because there's more BS there to fertilize it.

 

Nice one Don, I must try and remember that

Barrie

 

Oh, I'm sure there have been issues, just not sure how to interpret reliability as a whole.

 

I think you can only really judge on your own personal experience. If your camera has never let you down it's 100% reliable. If it lets you down even once at a critical time then it's 100% unreliable.

 

Ray,
The M8.2 was not really a brainstorm release. It fixed most issues that happened with the M8. The M9 seems to be following the history of the M8. I will probably wait to see what the M9.2 does. Hopefully it will address the issues and resolve them. At any rate, personally I don't like paying to be a beta tester. That's how I felt with my M8's.

Leica sent me some filters for my lenses. I was freaking out. You mean I'm supposed to put a $89.00 filter on my $3500.00 lens.
Well.... Nuff said.... I love the concept of the M9 and someday maybe, Leica will get it right. Till then, I'll save for the newer model.