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Tempted to swap to Fuji - for one main reason.

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by manju69, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. manju69

    manju69 Mu-43 Veteran

    493
    Jul 1, 2011
    Stroud, UK
    Pete
    Hey. I just read a comparison review of the X-T1 and the E-M5 Mark II in digital camera world and well.. was tempted to swap systems. And before you tell me what I already know, yes, I know it can be a grass is greener, and there is always a loss swapping out... and this is a MFT forum, so you and I both know how great they system really is! and I have a touch of GAS. And yes, it's another one of those threads that can create strong reactions.

    My main and significant reason is simple - handling. I love aperture rings. The XF R series of lenses all have aperture rings. In mft, we only 2 have - the one i tried on a Panasonic body (15mm), I loved it but not the focal length. I just think I would enjoy taking pictures more with this kit. I don't think i would get "better" pictures BTW - that is down to me. The comparison mentioned slightly better detail and a larger sensor (in the right situation) would give me a little more shallow DOF if i want it, so two other small advantages.

    I would lose the amazing Oly stabilisation of course. But having considered the cost and size of the kit I would need.. I am still tempted. It would be mostly the same weight and size (a tad bigger)

    Anyone been down this route? or have both systems? What would I gain/lose (aside from money and access to this forum haha!) As a whole what does the Fuji system lack perhaps?

    Thanks.
     
  2. hazwing

    hazwing Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 25, 2012
    Australia
    I can't remember for sure, but I seem to remember hints that the rumoured f1.2 lenses will have an aperture ring. I'm not that familiar with Fuji range, but was tempted at one point. At the time, seemed to me the Fuji lenses were more expensive
     
  3. manju69

    manju69 Mu-43 Veteran

    493
    Jul 1, 2011
    Stroud, UK
    Pete
    Thanks - Yes, I will definitely try and get to use one before I swap. For some reason, I have never like shaving two systems on the go! Their lenses do look good (and I am happy with what i have in m43) Interesting that you did not i miss IBIS. My system is not that small for m43 anyhow (E-M5 mark II, 12-40, 25 f1.8, Panasonic 35-100 f2,8) so I always use a small or big bag to carry some or all of my kit.

    Thanks. These rumoured lenses may well do, but i expect these lenses will be really expensive! and big also...
     
  4. stratokaster

    stratokaster Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 4, 2011
    Kyiv, Ukraine
    Pavel
    I'm a former Micro 4/3 shooter (technically I still have an old E-PL1 but never shoot with it anymore) and I use Fujifilm now. I'm not entirely happy with it and I encourage you to take a look at my thread: Fujifilm X vs Micro 4/3: pro et contra, and why I'm probably switching back to Micro 4/3

    Some observations:

    1. I thought I'd love the old school control scheme on my X-E2, but in practice it's quite a bit slower than the "modern" control scheme. I can live with it, but I don't like it.

    2. I think Fujifilm lens line-up is better if you don't need super-tele. For us ordinary folks who don't shoot sports or wildlife, Fujifilm offers many really fast (f/1.4) wide and normal options not available in Micro 4/3. Also Fujifilm's lenses are VERY competitively priced.

    3. Image quality is a bit of a mixed bag. I don't like how Lightroom renders X-Trans RAW files, but I also don't want to change my workflow. At higher ISOs X-Trans files are amazingly clean, but with somewhat muted color.

    4. AF speed is not up to Micro 4/3 standards in S-AF. But in C-AF current Fujifilm bodies are better than anything Micro 4/3 except E-M1.

    Issues No. 1 & 3 combined make we want to return to Micro 4/3.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  5. MoonMind

    MoonMind Mu-43 Top Veteran

    626
    Oct 25, 2014
    Switzerland
    Matt
    Interesting thread, very informative. I'll freely admit that Fuji tickles my GAS regularily, the X-E2(s) and X-T1 being among the 'worst offenders' (translation: most attractive offerings - to me). But whenever I do a reality check, I realise that most things I would gain by a switch would also entail some major drawbacks. Referring to Stratokaster's post, No.s 1, 3 and to a certain extend 2 (I love my :mu43: lenses!) are very important points.

    I had wanted to own a digital camera with a classic control scheme for ages; that was one of the reasons I finally bought the LX100 (thankfully, not having a satisfactory compact zoom camera was more important!). While it's really a great little camera and performs well enough, there are some quirks and annoyances - and most of them originate with that classic control scheme. Especially with the - here comes! - aperture ring that is prone to getting knocked accidentally when the camera is in a bag or pocket (or taken out of it). The same is true for the dedicated exposure control dial, but that one's so useful that I still prefer to have it. I shoot in aperture priority more or less exclusively, and the aperture ring offers a quick way of control, but sometimes it ends up in 'A' position or not where I remembered it, so shots get missed (or out of whack in terms of desired DOF). That's why I have to double-check exposure a lot more often than on the E-M10 - seems counter-intuitive, but still true. Apart from the welcome fact that I can set the aperture when the camera is turned off, the advantages are definitely minor - hard to say if the downsides actually matter more. As it is, I like the camera enough to put up with it. But I wouldn't buy it again simply for its allusions to old-school photography.

    It's a great reminder that the modern control scheme got invented for a reason ...

    M.
     
  6. demiro

    demiro Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Nov 7, 2010
    Pete, I just moved over to Fuji. X-E2 + 35/1.4 and 18-55. I shoot mostly JPEGs. Mostly people. Fuji just looks better to me. But that is a personal thing.

    Operationally, you give up AF speed. Fuji is not nearly as slow as rumoured, but Oly is faster. Video is probably worse with Fuji, but if you are considering Fuji and have Oly you are probably not a huge video guy in the first place. Camera controls are different. I like them both, with a slight nod to Fuji. Not a huge deal to me though.

    Definitely worth a try. I picked up the small kit I have for ~ $900 used, so while the new prices are higher vs m4/3s on average, there are some deals out there. The X-E2 is a good example. With just released FW update the camera picks up a ton of new features, putting almost dead level with the newly announced X-E2s.
     
  7. stratokaster

    stratokaster Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 4, 2011
    Kyiv, Ukraine
    Pavel
    Agree with this. In terms of AF speed, Fujifilm is very serviceable in S-AF and actually quite good in C-AF (thanks to on-sensor PDAF).

    Video quality depends on the framerate. At 60p, it's hideously bad. At 25p, it's okay. Not great, not even good, but okay.

    This is true, after FW 4.0 the camera is much better than before. And it's quite cheap on the used market.
     
  8. manju69

    manju69 Mu-43 Veteran

    493
    Jul 1, 2011
    Stroud, UK
    Pete
    Thanks - informative. At present I only shoot jpg (though this may change) so I am not sure 3. would be an issue for me in Lightroom? And point 1. It could be nostalgia of course that attracted me to the old school scheme. I'll think about how I can try it out somehow.

    I don't use long tele at all, so no issues there.
     
  9. manju69

    manju69 Mu-43 Veteran

    493
    Jul 1, 2011
    Stroud, UK
    Pete
    Thanks. Those would be the lenses I would choose, and i shoot jpg also. I do like the look of fuji files, but it is not always easy to know which factors give the details you want. I don't use video ever, so no worries there. I'll take a look at used X-E2 prices also. That might be a way to test the water.
     
  10. Mattyh

    Mattyh Mu-43 Regular

    65
    Dec 14, 2013
    UK
    As a previous owner of a Fuji X-E2 and X-T1, I agree with nearly all the point above, the only problem I had with the system was cost, choice, weight, very poor video and AF even though the firmware update did solve a few problems, it's quite a expensive system to get involved in with not a lot of choice a for cheaper, larger lens system,

    I must admit my Fuji X-E2 paired with the 27mm lens was a total joy to use and the main reason I went with the GX8 due to their very similar handling.

    The lenses I owned, the 18-55mm, 18mm f2, 27mm f2.8 and 35mm f1.4 were all star performers, like others have said before AF is not even comparable to m43 and video worse still, but the jpegs straight out of the camera were just awesome.

    Now that I've seen what my current m43 system can offer me, I will not be going back to a Fuji system camera, but I have pre ordered the new Fuji X70 as I'm a sucker for large sensor compact cameras.
     
  11. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    GAS is a pretty bad affliction! We should all ask ourselves what our current kit prevents us from doing, or what frustrates us about it, before we go on the hunt for something new. That's especially true if the "something new" is another system with all the costs a system switch entails - bodies, lenses, batteries, chargers, filters, bags, software, remote controls, flashes, ... I very nearly recently succumbed to GAS with an A7R. I thought I needed the lower noise and greater latitude to pull files in PP that that lovely 36Mp sensor would offer. After a weekend of trying out the A7R I decided that actually u43 does 99% of what I need and that spending thousands of £/$/whatever really didn't justify the 1% that remains. I did a short comparison which you can see here BTW.

    As for Fuji - I've played with the XT1 before but didn't find the IQ any better, and in some cases worse (X-trans issues in LR, softness at higher ISOs). The bodies are nice though and the lenses too. Personally, I'm not hankering for old-style aperture rings - having the controls to hand on two dials that fall easily to the thumb and forefinger while holding the camera is, I think, a very effective UI. However, each of us has their own needs so I'm not saying any one view is right.

    My main advice would be to start small and see if it works before you make any big moves.
     
  12. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    I agree on the unique lens options, but "VERY competitively priced"? I don't think so. The 16mm f1.4 and 23mm f1.4 are $899-999. The cheapest normal prime is $400. Their normal pancake prime is a $450 f2.8 vs our 20mm f1.7 at $270. Their 90mm f2 costs even more than our 75mm f1.8. Their 60mm macro is $200 more than the Olympus 60mm. About the only ones I've seen that I'd call competitive are the 18mm f2, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2 and 100-400 when compared to their Panasonic Leica counterparts in m4/3. And the PL lenses are already premium priced.
     
  13. Speedliner

    Speedliner Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 2, 2015
    Southern NJ, USA
    Rob
    I thought this was a fair comparison of three popular options. Fwiw, the Pen-F should come out just as the e-m5ii did with maybe an improvement or two. Don't know how applicable the Fuji tested is to all that you're considering. But maybe there's some good info for you.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. dixeyk

    dixeyk Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 9, 2010

    I found that Lightroom does not do a very good job with X-Trans and if it's a part of your workflow I can understand why you wouldn't want to switch. A better RAW translator (by better I mean works better with X-Trans files) really makes a world of difference with the image quality.
     
  15. saladin

    saladin Mu-43 Veteran

    387
    May 29, 2015
    jason
    I understand the aperture ring allure. I too like the tactile nature it adds to photography. The interesting thing for me is that to get the full traditional feel, id want an x-pro (preferably) or x-e form factor rather than an XT. Tying in with this nostalgic vibe is the Fuji jpeg monochrome ability. It actually is very good. The new Acros simulation seems very very nice too.

    But then i see the new PenF and its Tri-X emulation...........

    I have an X-E1 and the 27mm. I like them, fun to use. But i reach for the Oly with the 15PL more often.



    Its really the old story: go and try each model, see if the handling suits your wants. Only then should sensor size etc come into play, because up to about A3 print size virtually every camera format is great.


    I do wish my Oly bodies could detect the PL15 aperture ring. But ive recently picked up and adaptor and am using a Pentax K lens. Fully manual, Ap ring, lovely focus ring etc. Thats proving to be a fun and cheap way to get the old school vibe without swapping systems.
     
  16. ean10775

    ean10775 Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 31, 2011
    Cleveland, Ohio
    Eric
    Another option (and the one I went with) is to get an X100 series camera and keep your m43 system. You get the aperture ring, dial-based control scheme, the hybrid viewfinder, a very good lens, great JPEGs and you aren't tempted to buy additional lenses unless you count the converters (which I admit I did end up buying). I've shot more with my X100 cameras (first an S and now a T) than any other camera I've owned, but when it comes to photo shoots I go back to my m43 kit for the faster and more reliable AF, image stabilization, tilting touchscreen LCD, and easier to work with RAW files.
     
  17. saladin

    saladin Mu-43 Veteran

    387
    May 29, 2015
    jason
    I think an original X100 (bayer sensor, not xtrans) would be a great buy. The raw files are fully supported by adobe and the latest firmware makes it far more usable than it once was.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. manju69

    manju69 Mu-43 Veteran

    493
    Jul 1, 2011
    Stroud, UK
    Pete
    Thanks everyone... plenty to consider here, but it has made me pause and really think about what I am looking for. I'll handle a fuji in a store sometime and see if it still attracts me. It does feel premature to swap systems as overall I am very happy with m43. GAS over!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. WT21

    WT21 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Feb 19, 2010
    Boston
    Really good summary video on the three systems. Thanks for sharing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. GFFPhoto

    GFFPhoto Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 24, 2013
    If you like aperture rings, 2 very good Panasonic lenses have them (PL42.5, PL15). Pick up a GM5 on close out and a PL15. It's a great small kit, it's compatible with the rest of your m43 gear, and you get an aperture ring on the lens.

    Edit: Just realized you said you didn't like that focal length. Nevermind...
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2016