Sony A7R4

Reflector

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It definitely won't be fun to shoot even the best of lenses as you'll have very narrow DoF and be diffraction limited past f/4-5.6. At 16mp for Micro Four Thirds, the decency level is around 40lpmm, which is a good approximation of where the pixel pitch is at for the A7R4 sensor. On some FE mount lenses you're pretty much going to have no realistic resolution gains beyond the center or you'll just have crummy IQ outside of the center of the image.

Sony Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* FE 35 mm f/2.8 ZA review - Image resolution - LensTip.com
Sony Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* FE 55 mm f/1.8 ZA review - Image resolution - LensTip.com
 

Turbofrog

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It definitely won't be fun to shoot even the best of lenses as you'll have very narrow DoF and be diffraction limited past f/4-5.6. At 16mp for Micro Four Thirds, the decency level is around 40lpmm, which is a good approximation of where the pixel pitch is at for the A7R4 sensor. On some FE mount lenses you're pretty much going to have no realistic resolution gains beyond the center or you'll just have crummy IQ outside of the center of the image.

Sony Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* FE 35 mm f/2.8 ZA review - Image resolution - LensTip.com
Sony Carl Zeiss Sonnar T* FE 55 mm f/1.8 ZA review - Image resolution - LensTip.com
Given how good the 24MP A7 III is, it would seem to be colossally foolish to spend an extra $1500 for the A7r IV and not to pair it with the very best lenses in the system. I would expect to see a lot of Sony GM and Sigma ART lenses...

It's hard to imagine casually shooting with a 61MP system in general - you'll definitely need a sturdy tripod and a remote shutter to squeak out even close to optimal resolution* - so pairing it with something like the 35mm/f2.8 seems doubly foolish.

*stabilization systems are not particularly concerned with sensor size (except for the additional inertia of the sensor, which makes IBIS more challenging on large sensors) but they are concerned with angular resolution. So a 61MP sensor (of any size) needs gyros and electromagnets that are 75% more precise than a 20MP sensor (of any size) to achieve the same stabilization effectiveness. People focus on the sensor weight as the reason for M4/3's extremely efficient IBIS, but the relatively low pixel counts is another reason why it works so well.
 

speedy

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It's hard to imagine casually shooting with a 61MP system in general - you'll definitely need a sturdy tripod and a remote shutter to squeak out even close to optimal resolution* - so pairing it with something like the 35mm/f2.8 seems doubly foolish.
I don't get this. We're currently shooting smaller pixel pitch at 20MP with m4/3, (the pixel density is what causes the motion blur issues) so why would less pixel density give you more grief?

Also, smaller aperture lenses are easier to design for more consistent corner to corner performance (a lot of the reason Fuji's GFX medium format lenses are so good) I'm not seeing the issue there either
 

Turbofrog

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I don't get this. We're currently shooting smaller pixel pitch at 20MP with m4/3, (the pixel density is what causes the motion blur issues) so why would less pixel density give you more grief?
I addressed it in my little coda after the asterisk. Pixel density would be an issue only in motion blur relating specifically to translation, which makes up 2 axes. It ignores the pitch, roll, and yaw rotational axes, which are independent of pixel density (and these 3 axes are likely to be most highly correlated with motion blur to begin with, given how you hold a camera).

Ming Thein expounds on it more in his typically lengthy fashion.
 

robcee

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I don't get this. We're currently shooting smaller pixel pitch at 20MP with m4/3, (the pixel density is what causes the motion blur issues) so why would less pixel density give you more grief?

Also, smaller aperture lenses are easier to design for more consistent corner to corner performance (a lot of the reason Fuji's GFX medium format lenses are so good) I'm not seeing the issue there either
you have to move the sensor more if the pixels are larger to achieve the same effect. A larger more massive sensor requires stronger motors and more electrical power to achieve that, to ride along on @Turbofrog's excellent point.

Oh well, any excuse to use a tripod!
 
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Anyone here putting money on pre-order for R IV? I am personally elated that R III used prices will be much more accessible which is what I am eyeing.
I have an EM1 Mk2, some of the best glass Olympus has ever made, arthritis, and the biggest conventional print I ever made was 36 inches wide. So, er, probably not.
 

speedy

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you have to move the sensor more if the pixels are larger to achieve the same effect. A larger more massive sensor requires stronger motors and more electrical power to achieve that, to ride along on @Turbofrog's excellent point.

Oh well, any excuse to use a tripod!
Well, going by that logic, the newer, more pixel dense high MP sensor (with smaller pixels) should be easier to get better results from ;)
 

speedy

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I have an EM1 Mk2, some of the best glass Olympus has ever made, arthritis, and the biggest conventional print I ever made was 36 inches wide. So, er, probably not.
He. You and me both. I started out with ILC's with canons much maligned 18MP sensor camera many moons back, which was a quantum leap from my 2MP Fuji bridge camera, and have been satisfied ever since. 20MP is actually overkill for me if I were to be honest. Plenty for anything I'll ever want to print.
 

drd1135

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I’m impressed but not tempted in the least. I can’t think of any way this camera would improve my photography. Given the money for this body and a few lenses I would buy a lower mp body and more lenses.:wink:
 
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Reflector

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It's hard to imagine casually shooting with a 61MP system in general - you'll definitely need a sturdy tripod and a remote shutter to squeak out even close to optimal resolution* - so pairing it with something like the 35mm/f2.8 seems doubly foolish.
This is just a follow on regarding some of my thoughts about a 61MP sensor and the lenses required to work with it.

If I personally owned something like the A7R4 myself, I would be using the highest lpmm lenses on it personally. I included that 35mm f/2.8 because often we see those photos of "look at this very small lens on a Sony and this very large f/1.2 PRO lens on a E-M1II" on the internet in general. The other point is that is a Sony Zeiss lens which are generally "well regarded" for optical performance within some circles. Regardless, the center resolution is pretty good on it at one stop down. The edge (and corners by extension)? ...Not so much. Typically the smaller compact primes that optical performance for size will have "similar" optical characteristics anyways.

On another note: The moment you ask for older legacy 135 format lenses to push across the frame image quality... Good luck. They're also wasted on the A7R4 too.

APS-C sits within the sweet spot of a lot of those lenses and Micro Four Thirds challenges the absolute center of lenses when using a plain tube. Historical 135 format lenses (predating 80s) typically aren't super awesome things, especially when it comes to smaller/compact designs, compared to the large, heavy and very corrected designs that we see coming out of Sigma these days. You're pretty much having to use the best of lenses to pair with a sensor like that or you're wasting potential.

A body does not make a camera system.
 

ToxicTabasco

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Great camera. It will be the rave for all reviewers soon. Does this indicate a new Sony A9 MARK II is in the making?
 

drd1135

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Great camera. It will be the rave for all reviewers soon. Does this indicate a new Sony A9 MARK II is in the making?
I've read that one is coming soon. I agree that this is a camera the reviewers will love. I think it also says something that we had no real build up for this release. This is a showpiece camera, not a bread-and-butter working camera fro most photographers. It is an excellent addition to Sony's impressive line-up and a potentially great camera for a great price for those who can make use of it.
 
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robcee

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y’know, all these new high MP cameras mean some of the older FF DSLRs are coming way down in price. I just checked and the Nikon D810 is selling on Amazon (US) for $1995 right now. That’s a lot of camera for that price.
 

Turbofrog

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y’know, all these new high MP cameras mean some of the older FF DSLRs are coming way down in price. I just checked and the Nikon D810 is selling on Amazon (US) for $1995 right now. That’s a lot of camera for that price.
A7r II is only $1500 on B&H...
 

ddekadt

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Absolutely agree, 100%.

How else will I justify spending hundreds of dollars on new high capacity memory cards and hard drives so I can store enormous files that I will mostly display online?
 

tomO2013

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No real interest in the A7riv personally although it looks like a solid release. I get a little frustrated every time there is a new Sony release and there are reviewers who've watched a half hour slide show , handled the camera for an hour and go on youtube to declare it the best thing since sliced bread. For example the Nothrups, only to back track and say there are a number of issues later.
I'd advise anybody interested to wait and let the initial guinea pigs figure out what works and what doesn't.

While it looks like a solid release I think technologically Panasonic has out innovated them this go around the merry-go-round...

Some limitations that I observe with the A7riv especially relative to what I see as the technological competitive leader in FF right now (S1/S1R)...
- no 4k60p e.g. S1R does 4k 60 150mbps
- 100 mbps codec @8bit.
- no 10bit video
- no full size HDMI out. S1R has full size HDMI
- 4k crop is 1.6 which is greater than a7iii and a7riii so you may see a little difference if trying to match video footage with existing bodies and shooting 4k.
- Jello/wobbling in video and electronic shutter is significant. A7iii is better in that regard by all accounts. Again noting the S1R has full frame (1.09 crop) for 4k60p with binning.
- 10 frames per second is a little misleading , small print in spec sheets says at 8bit jpeg or 12bit raw - those numbers do not align with how other FF competitors measure their continuous af (e.g. Canon, Nikon and Panasonic) with 14bit raw files.
- lack of XQD card slot for such large raw files.... it's a Sony tech and it would make the camera future proof to cfast express. Nevermind the buffer clearing looks to take ages with this camera body and functionality is limited while the buffer clears!
- Pixel shifting cannot be done in camera, it requires post capture.
- Additional phase detect points will make it much more prone to striping/banding in back lit situations or where pushing the shadows
- No lossless compressed raw to save file space on hard drive.
- no mini raw option like Nikon D850

nice improvements...
- 5mp oled viewfinder at 120fps is likely gorgeous if anything like S1/S1R and GFX100
- 61mp resolution is nice to have but it's not like the existing a7rii and iii models were short on MP. but still nice.
- Finally battery door and base plate are weather sealed.
- Real time eye af? This is great and absolutely great on the A9. I always found the a7riii focus to be really good regardless. S1R to be faster and more accurate in point to point s-af and the Sony to be more accurate and fast action c-af. Both have class leading object recognition in stills and video, animal detect, birds etc... Both companies have great experience in and are investing heavily in object detection and recognition. Panasonic is better the farm on this type of future tech approach, Sony is taking a more here and now hybrid approach.

I'm interested to see how Canon and Nikon respond to this....
 

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