Some thoughts on the new 100 (and a reply to all those knocking it) and Panasonic's USP

[John M Flores]

I have to ask, since I know nothing of this world, but what you are talking about, aren't GoPros up to the task? I think their image stabilization is mostly digital (?) but from what I have seen looks great and for blogging purposes does it really matter if you lose a bit of resolution to support that digital cropping? Plug they are tiny, they have a form factor and a ton of accessories that make them ideal for mounting on just about anything for bike riding, traveling, etc., the newest ones I think are water proof without the housing (?), etc.

Anyway, wondering why some of these "action" or "sports" cameras might not be simply a better form factor than a more traditional camera body for these types of videos.

The GoPros and DJI Osmo Action and DJI Osmo Pocket (camera on gimbal) are great entry-level vlogging platforms but they have pluses and minuses. The GoPro look is kind of fishy though and you there's no way to frame the shot (no vlogger-facing LCD). The DJI Osmo Pocket FOV is a little narrow for vlogging and the gimbal doesn't fix z-axis (up and down) motion most common when walking, leading to a slightly "on a boat" look. And that category in general has various issues about battery life, audio support, etc... along with the typical limitations of a small sensor camera.

The new Sony and Lumix G100 appear to be positioned as step-up cameras from those setups, with improved image quality from larger sensors, better low light performance, better audio, better battery, and dual use for stills. Overall, it's a smart move, and positioned between the action cams on the low end and "real cameras" like the G95 on the upper end. I think that's part of what drove the price point target.

But personally, I would have preferred to see the G100 move a bit upward in price (and at risk of encroaching on G95 pricing) to incorporate OIS and think that product features (shutter type, OVO audio, weight, selfie features, etc..) could have provided the necessary differentiation. But they've likely done a lot of market analysis on most desired features and pricepoint for this market. For the sake of the brand, I hope it's a success.

 

[DAEMANO]

You make some valid points about YouTube's hot take culture, but I'm actually talking about the needs and desires of non-tech vloggers that have vlogs about bicycle riding, traveling, crushing various objects in a hydraulic press, and myriad other things. IBIS in a camera like this would have been great. I would have pre-ordered.

That said, it's interesting to read the comparisons to the GM5, a camera that was much admired but not much purchased new. Often, when a product that doesn't sell well new but becomes a cult classic in the used market, it's often because the new price was considered too high.

My feeling is that for entry-level Vloggers that find they have grown to need greater stabilization than the G100's built in Lens + EIS stab or that need stabilized 4k with less crop can replace (or just not buy) the official Panasonic tripod grip accessory ($50) with a one of the smaller gimbals (like the Zhiyun Crane M2 (now $200) or the FeiyuTech G6 Plus or Max $150-$200.) The net result would be a slightly larger size & cost than using the camera with the official grip, but would net video stabilization that no Panasonic/Oly IBIS could touch. Problem solved for video (kind of.) The advantage here is in buying a tiny camera like the G100 also allows the buyer to grow into accessories that are also tiny and lower cost (like gimbals, lenses and cages). These setups would blow away any cell phone for versatility, dynamic range, and FOV options as an ILC. Neither the Sony ZV-1 or Canon G7 mk III can swap a lens (to fisheye, telephotos, or vintage art glass) or have upgrade paths really at all. Those cameras aren't really competitors like the Canon M50. The ZV-1 just happened to be released nearly at the same time so the mind naturally goes in that direction as the nearest competitor.

The G100 launch price is high by about $50-$100. There is no doubt in my mind that it drop under $600 with a kit lens and maybe even $50 cheaper than that (body only) by Black Friday. The Canon M50 did so this will too. If the G100 reaches $550-$575 it's a no brainer. As noted, used old-tech GM5's go for $400-$500 on Ebay (depending on condition) almost instantly.

**In Europe the G100 is being offered as body only at launch for 50 GBP less. Not sure if that will ever happen in the U.S.

 

[kahren]

IBIS is one of m43s strongest key points, even strategically very important,
not including it in ANY new body is a mistake, unless its some sort of tiny gm5 thing.
If this g100 really was targeted towards video, and not a stills hybrid,
they should have left out the EVF for IBIS, to hit the target price.

P.S.
M43 is going to have a hard time without PDAF for entry-mid level cam
Basically all others have it, and m43 doesn't, e-m1 doesn't count, it was either a
bad iteration of pdaf or very expensive for what it was and in a large body.
E-M5III is basically the only one and it just recently came out and still pricy and
how well does it work compared to sony? This is part of the reason why Olympus is
where they are now, since their video side wasn't as targeted as panys, but pany will be
in trouble if they keep milking this and leaving things out, now is not the time.
S1 FF can getaway without it, because if they are going for top IQ pdaf can be harmful
and CDAF works well here, or MF can be used for video.

 

[John M Flores]

My feeling is that for entry-level Vloggers that find they have grown to need greater stabilization than the G100's built in Lens + EIS stab or that need stabilized 4k with less crop can replace (or just not buy) the official Panasonic tripod grip accessory ($50) with a one of the smaller gimbals (like the Zhiyun Crane M2 (now $200) or the FeiyuTech G6 Plus or Max $150-$200.) The net result would be a slightly larger size & cost than using the camera with the official grip, but would net video stabilization that no Panasonic/Oly IBIS could touch. Problem solved for video (kind of.) The advantage here is in buying a tiny camera like the G100 also allows the buyer to grow into accessories that are also tiny and lower cost (like gimbals, lenses and cages). These setups would blow away any cell phone for versatility, dynamic range, and FOV options as an ILC. Neither the Sony ZV-1 or Canon G7 mk III can swap a lens (to fisheye, telephotos, or vintage art glass) or have upgrade paths really at all. Those cameras aren't really competitors like the Canon M50. The ZV-1 just happened to be released nearly at the same time so the mind naturally goes in that direction as the nearest competitor.

The G100 launch price is high by about $50-$100. There is no doubt in my mind that it drop under $600 with a kit lens and maybe even $50 cheaper than that (body only) by Black Friday. The Canon M50 did so this will too. If the G100 reaches $550-$575 it's a no brainer. As noted, used old-tech GM5's go for $400-$500 on Ebay (depending on condition) almost instantly.

**In Europe the G100 is being offered as body only at launch for 50 GBP less. Not sure if that will ever happen in the U.S.

I sometimes travel with a guy that uses a handheld gimbal for his Sony A7 plus a Mavic Pro drone to produce videos like this:

He shoots video and I shoot stills and write the story. I've thought about trying to shoot stills and video, but I don't have enough space in my head or time in the day to do both well and ride and navigate.

The gimbal is great, butter smooth, and offers new creative opportunities, but it adds weight, complexity, and time. Due to the combined weight of the camera and gimbal (and the nature of the kinds of videos he's producing), shots are limited to a couple of minutes max. A selfie vlog style shot, with the vlogger holding the combined weight of ~1.75 lbs straight out in front of her, will be limited to her arm strength.

But yes, a gimbal is a great next step for someone that's purchased the G100.

 

[Macroramphosis]

Do any of these vloggers use one of the more recent (and raved-about) smartphones for their gigs? I'm curious.... I admit to having never even looked at myself on my phone so I may be way off line, but the way some talk up their phones you'd have to think it wouldn't be long before they're capable of being a decent vlogging platform.

 

[John M Flores]

Do any of these vloggers use one of the more recent (and raved-about) smartphones for their gigs? I'm curious.... I admit to having never even looked at myself on my phone so I may be way off line, but the way some talk up their phones you'd have to think it wouldn't be long before they're capable of being a decent vlogging platform.

Not really because the selfie cameras (on the same side of the screen) are typically crap. All the phone camera improvements over the last 10 years have happened on the rear (back of phone) cameras.

 

[DAEMANO]

Do any of these vloggers use one of the more recent (and raved-about) smartphones for their gigs? I'm curious.... I admit to having never even looked at myself on my phone so I may be way off line, but the way some talk up their phones you'd have to think it wouldn't be long before they're capable of being a decent vlogging platform.

A very small minority maybe do. Just like @John M Flores I too am skeptical.

Also importantly, even though cell phone sensors, processors, software, and even lenses (to a lesser degree) have come a very long way, there still has been next to no progress with ergonomics and physical controls on mobile phones. Just holding one while shooting or fiddling with it can result in a drop. Even worse, adjusting any camera parameters on a cell phone (outside of activating the shutter, maybe zoom, setting area focus, and maaaybe exposure area) is painful . It's also impossible to adjust with a gloved hand. Whereas I can fully operate my G9 while inside the viewfinder and following my target without thinking twice (often with just one hand.) From grip to controls, it's an ergonomic dream. Unless voice controls or something like that add the ability to input quickly and reliably back to the cell phone camera, there will probably never be a time when mobile phones will be agile enough to be used for anything but casual vlogging, snapshot phonography, or fringe professional use.

 

[Macroramphosis]

Gotcha - ok. That makes sense. I've seen people with their phones inside a case they put a pistol grip on - which may alleviate the 'dropping', but then you've got the other ergonomics to think about, as you say. Thanks for the insight

 

[Jeroen81]

My thoughts. I'm not into video nor flogging.
But I don't see a reason why this can't be a nice photocamera for stills. Sure it does mis Ibis, but the X-T30 and most of it competitors also miss that feature.
Do like the body design. Hope it will be a success and attract more people to MFT.

 

[John M Flores]

Do any of these vloggers use one of the more recent (and raved-about) smartphones for their gigs? I'm curious.... I admit to having never even looked at myself on my phone so I may be way off line, but the way some talk up their phones you'd have to think it wouldn't be long before they're capable of being a decent vlogging platform.

A very small minority maybe do. Just like @John M Flores I too am skeptical.

Also importantly, even though cell phone sensors, processors, software, and even lenses (to a lesser degree) have come a very long way, there still has been next to no progress with ergonomics and physical controls on mobile phones. Just holding one while shooting or fiddling with it can result in a drop. Even worse, adjusting any camera parameters on a cell phone (outside of activating the shutter, maybe zoom, setting area focus, and maaaybe exposure area) is painful . It's also impossible to adjust with a gloved hand. Whereas I can fully operate my G9 while inside the viewfinder and following my target without thinking twice (often with just one hand.) From grip to controls, it's an ergonomic dream. Unless voice controls or something like that add the ability to input quickly and reliably back to the cell phone camera, there will probably never be a time when mobile phones will be agile enough to be used for anything but casual vlogging, snapshot phonography, or fringe professional use.

LOL I'm gonna have to eat my own hat here - I totally forgot about these videos that I make with my nephew, sometimes using the Samsung Galaxy S9 in selfie mode!

This project is more about documenting my nephew and I as he grows up and is not monetized or anything, so I'm ok with the OK quality of the camera. For this application, there is no issue with operation because it's a simple process of framing the shot and hitting record.

 

[RS86]

My thoughts. I'm not into video nor flogging.

Have you tried? If not how can you know? It might spice your photography up!

 

[Jeroen81]

Have you tried? If not how can you know? It might spice your photography up!

See, I don't even know how to spell vlogging.

 

[grcolts]

The G100 reminds me more of the G6 body as far as style goes. To this day, my G6 is still my favorite ergonomic camera.

 

[Cederic]

The bit that gets me is "Here's a camera designed for helping you put video online" that doesn't then have a live streaming facility.

Sure, you can HDMI out into a capture card, but you can do that with any camera. This really should have been webcam capable out of the box.

 

[Macroramphosis]

I think we're done with the sensible comments here now - we just need to concentrate on the flogging, surely?

 

[DAEMANO]

The bit that gets me is "Here's a camera designed for helping you put video online" that doesn't then have a live streaming facility.

Sure, you can HDMI out into a capture card, but you can do that with any camera. This really should have been webcam capable out of the box.

Also would not surprise me at all if, for the G100, Panasonic is moving this functionality completely to either of the Lumix mobile apps or desktop software.

Fn4 (below) suggests mobile phone integration to be a focus of this camera.

Checked my G9, GX85, and G6. Also images of the GX9, GX95, GX850/GF10 and no similar iconography exists on any hard controls. It's definitely a possibility.

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

 

[JensM]

Late to the party, but I found the camera somewhat interesting upon release as a house nr 2(ish). Turns out, here in Norway it cost the same as the G90 and more than the GX9, so my interest swiftly dwindled to non-existent. (Priced at about $950-990). I actually paid less for my G9 house, when I got that new. Now back to looking at the GX880, which can be had second hand for about $200, with the 12-32, not overly keen on the 16MP sensor, though.

 

[grcolts]

The G100 reminds me more of the G6 body as far as style goes. To this day, my G6 is still my favorite ergonomic camera.

I love the G6's slider for changing +- settings quickly. This was my first Panasonic camera and I love it. It is now my back-up to my G9.

 

[archaeopteryx]

I'm late as well, having just seen and caught up on this thread. I guess the main comment I would add is, while the convergence the GX880, GF, and GM to the G100 has been discussed, it seems worth extending what @grcolts has mentioned about the G6 to note the G100 is perhaps more an update to the (non-IBIS) G7 than anything else. So Panasonic's converging four different models into one body and maintaining the entry-level price point rather than targeting the smaller upmarket as much as their competition has. This gives a simpler product lineup with a body priced under the Z50, S10, and A6100 and not too much more than the M50. Seems like good business strategy to me in a contracting market, particularly if some adjustment is made for forum discussions' tendency to emphasize features towards the high end and neglect most of the volume is towards the low end.

In particular, I feel like a lot forum comments about the G100 are attempting to interpret it more like an extension of the G90 instead of paying attention to its price point and Panasonic's pattern of differentiation between single digit (G9), two digit (G90), and three digit bodies. Probably not the greatest numbering choice for marketing clarity—perhaps it would have been better to call it the G200 to more clearly separate from the G90 and maybe riff off the slightly more costly X-T200—but it is logical to update the G7 space to 20MP and trickle down a few other features. For example, one thing which hasn't been mentioned is the G100 gets EFCS along with less thwocky shutter.

In particular, I think it's worth highlighting the G100 adds focus bracketing to the G7 where other manufacturers reserve this feature to higher tiers. If you're bracketing for landscape, product photography, macro, or photomacrography IBIS is unimportant since the camera's probably on a tripod. The G100 is faster than the G7 (10 fps versus 6-8) with a deeper buffer (20+ raw and 480+ jpeg versus 13+/100+) and also faster than the G95 (9 fps). It's a smaller buffer than the G95 (30+/600+), but, since autofocus brackets rarely exceed 400 frames there's no apparent functional difference for deep stacks when waiting for raw is impractical. For low magnification stacks the difference between 20+ and 13+ raws is more noticeable than 20+ to 30+.

I also like the G100's small size and modest weight by recent body standards (352 g with card and battery, 422 g with the 12-32 kit lens, don't know how camerasize.com got 412 g) so, personally find it a pretty interesting body. Not that dual IS isn't also interesting, but the G80, G90, and G9 are all noticeably heavier and more expensive, the G9's too big, and I'm not that often in situations where I really need dual IS as opposed to just OIS.

 

[D7k1]

Late to the party, but I found the camera somewhat interesting upon release as a house nr 2(ish). Turns out, here in Norway it cost the same as the G90 and more than the GX9, so my interest swiftly dwindled to non-existent. (Priced at about $950-990). I actually paid less for my G9 house, when I got that new. Now back to looking at the GX880, which can be had second hand for about $200, with the 12-32, not overly keen on the 16MP sensor, though.

Even though I have 2 G9's, the Gx85 @ 16mp is my favorite travel camera. Does what I want and the images are very, very IMHO.