Sold My E-M1 and 12-40 to a friend today!

bikerhiker

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
2,005
Location
Canada
Real Name
David
Respectfully, the Nikon D610 and the D750 is no Nikon D810. Nikon D810 shoots cleaner and has more acuity than both of these cameras. The Nikon D810 is BETTER than the current A7r. After all, it was made to beat the A7r. So I would respectfully say that if you want to see a significant difference and full RAW file (not the Sony 11 bit compressed which while malleable creates compression artifacts compared to the D810) and was the main reason why some A7r users dumped the camera for the Nikon D810. But seriously though, it is a more expensive camera. It's $3000 new. The Sony is $2500 new or in my area $1500 used. A used E-M5 in my area goes for around $389 and $599 new or an E-M10 is $440 used or $549 or less new. And don't forget about lenses which are Zeiss and not only they are so expensive, they may also been non-repairable if the damage is somewhat severe.

Full frame is good and the Nikon D750 currently represents the best value in terms of sensor performance, much more so than the Sony A7 Mk 2 which is why a lot of stores are selling them like hot cakes. Why settle for anything less? Why not settle with the Nikon D810 which is currently the best all around camera with the most quietest and vibration less mirror and shutter against the A7r shutter slap in your face if you guys TRULY ARE looking for the best full frame camera?!? Why settle with the Sony A7r with barely any lenses?

Seriously, no one puts a huge emphasis in this hobby, because it's a hobby to some people who are happy with their MFT gear or their APS-C.

History had always been like this; where smaller format reigns supreme in general acceptance whereby the larger format are specialized for their best imaging qualities. To say that the trend is going to larger sensor means that one day, we will all be shooting Pentax 645Z?!? Not likely. Full frame and medium format will always be the staple for those people who strive for the best image quality; but what is the best image quality just like some people are happy to stay in Motel 6, but some people are only happy to stay in nothing less than New York's Waldorf Astoria! I know it's a nice place and I love it when it's close to Central Park.
 

Turbofrog

Mu-43 Legend
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
5,362
History had always been like this; where smaller format reigns supreme in general acceptance whereby the larger format are specialized for their best imaging qualities. To say that the trend is going to larger sensor means that one day, we will all be shooting Pentax 645Z?!? Not likely. Full frame and medium format will always be the staple for those people who strive for the best image quality;
I know this is completely incidental to your real point, but I have to say that the new Sony 44x33mm MF sensor is just screaming out for a mirrorless body. The huge mirror box on medium-format cameras is a big contributor to their bulk, and the mirror slap on MF is astonishing. And if what you're going for is resolution, not blur, then you don't even need massive lenses with large apertures on a Pentax 645. Even if there was just a hollow adapter to get the flange-focal distance correct, a Pentax K01-esque 645 would be fantastic. And way cheaper to make, on top of it all!
 

Ulfric M Douglas

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 6, 2010
Messages
3,709
Location
Northumberland
Hah, yeah that "medium format" Sony CMOS sensor would be so cool in a mirrorless body : something like those real medium format Fuji rangefinders, or even the big old folders.

What was this thread about?
 

bikerhiker

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
2,005
Location
Canada
Real Name
David
I know this is completely incidental to your real point, but I have to say that the new Sony 44x33mm MF sensor is just screaming out for a mirrorless body. The huge mirror box on medium-format cameras is a big contributor to their bulk, and the mirror slap on MF is astonishing. And if what you're going for is resolution, not blur, then you don't even need massive lenses with large apertures on a Pentax 645. Even if there was just a hollow adapter to get the flange-focal distance correct, a Pentax K01-esque 645 would be fantastic. And way cheaper to make, on top of it all!
Possibly. We'll see as we now have lots of options of things that were out of reach financial wise is now within reach to some people.
 

bikerhiker

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Dec 24, 2013
Messages
2,005
Location
Canada
Real Name
David
Hah, yeah that "medium format" Sony CMOS sensor would be so cool in a mirrorless body : something like those real medium format Fuji rangefinders, or even the big old folders.

What was this thread about?
I think the thread was about someone who sold off the E-M1 after getting a Sony A7 and possibly may want to get back in later on because of the maturity of the m43 system in the near future. Completely understandable.
 

mattia

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
2,391
Location
The Netherlands
The 12-40/2.8 is almost identical in size and weight to the Sony/Zeiss 24-70/4.0. For me that's a nice sized package, and I prefer a good quality F4 zoom to a 2.8 zoom for the size advantages. If I want fast glass, 2.8 doesn't quite cut it and I prefer to use a prime.

For me it's an adjunct travel system for specific purposes. Size matters enough that I would chose the f4 over the f2.8 zoom - certainly for FF. Horses for courses.
 

Bhupinder2002

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
4,313
Location
Melbourne Australia
The 12-40/2.8 is almost identical in size and weight to the Sony/Zeiss 24-70/4.0. For me that's a nice sized package, and I prefer a good quality F4 zoom to a 2.8 zoom for the size advantages. If I want fast glass, 2.8 doesn't quite cut it and I prefer to use a prime.

For me it's an adjunct travel system for specific purposes. Size matters enough that I would chose the f4 over the f2.8 zoom - certainly for FF. Horses for courses.
With all due respects , I will take Olympus 12-40 anyway over Sony 24-70 . This Sony zooms is one of the crappiest premium lens around . If you look at some comparasions , even poor Sony 28-70 is said to be performing better than this .
Cheers
 

Amin Sabet

Administrator
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
10,892
Location
Boston, MA (USA)
Bhupinder, not everyone feels that way: http://tashley1.zenfolio.com/blog/2014/3/the-sony-zeiss-vario-tessar-t-fe-24-70mm-f4-za-oss-hallelujah

But I'm like you - my A7 mostly sits in a drawer (comes out for macro with an old adapted Nikkor) while my E-M5s (two of them) see lots of use. I just enjoy using them more (better AF, touch AF, IBIS, lens selection, etc), and the sensor image quality differences rarely make a difference when the two systems are shot at the DOFs I tend to use.

If I didn't shoot the Leica M, the A7 would see a lot of use with adapted manual focus lenses, but my main rotation now goes between the E-M5s and the Leica.
 

sdsyver

Mu-43 Regular
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
161
Location
Northern Alberta
Real Name
Shawn
All of you make valid points, but for me right now the A7 series of cameras is what works for me. I use a combination of old glass and new. I have kept all of my premium m4/3 glass just in case I change my mind or want something different. My wife still has a GX7. Honestly the shallow depth of field I get with Sony and the fact that it's the same size as the E-M1 well it works for me. You don't have to agree with everything I think or my decisions as they are just my opinions. I'm actually very surprised at how much attention this thread has gotten so thanks for that. Lots of new info in here that I have not seen before. It all about the journey and right now I'm with Sony.
 

Bhupinder2002

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
4,313
Location
Melbourne Australia
All of you make valid points, but for me right now the A7 series of cameras is what works for me. I use a combination of old glass and new. I have kept all of my premium m4/3 glass just in case I change my mind or want something different. My wife still has a GX7. Honestly the shallow depth of field I get with Sony and the fact that it's the same size as the E-M1 well it works for me. You don't have to agree with everything I think or my decisions as they are just my opinions. I'm actually very surprised at how much attention this thread has gotten so thanks for that. Lots of new info in here that I have not seen before. It all about the journey and right now I'm with Sony.
I am happy that A7 works for you and it works for me as well . There is nothing wrong in having different option and I also use different formats and systems . If you want ultimate image quality and don't want video .. Just pick up Sigma Merrils and u will find they slaughter everything available in the market right from P&S and I in capable hands even NikonD810 . The thing which annoys me the most is when ever people pick up a FF , they suddenly become better photographers ,files become cleaner overnight , they start shooting at crazy ISO .. Like 90000000 etc etc . Come on guys m let's be mature .. Camera r just tools and every camera is more capable than what we are . I shot with Fuji X100 , Dp3 Merill and now I have Sony A7 with 55 1.8 but I love and extensively use my MFT gear . Having an other system makes me appreciate m43 more . If I find one or two stronger points about other formats then I also find many weak points as well .
If A7 works for u .. Very good ..enjoy it . I didn't bond with EP5 but many people love it .
Cheers
Bhupinder
 

Bhupinder2002

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
4,313
Location
Melbourne Australia
Ray .. Please start from cell phone if u wanna learn how to take photos :biggrin: , post some selfies and if u could take good ones then we can recommend a FF for you :tongue:
 

OzRay

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
Jan 29, 2010
Messages
4,991
Location
South Gippsland, Australia
Real Name
Ray, not Oz
Ray .. Please start from cell phone if u wanna learn how to take photos :biggrin: , post some selfies and if u could take good ones then we can recommend a FF for you :tongue:
Oi! I already have a camera that has a teensy, weensy, sensor, with bugger all pixels, no dynamic range, no ISO capability and even less bokeh. :)
 

AlanU

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
488
In the dslr world many crop sensor users would probably find the Oly em-1 very intriguing. The image quality between the two would be very close and a dslr user would get spoiled with wysiwyg exposure on evf and lcd.

I haven't really owned a crop sensor dslr for a long time so I cannot comment on side by side comparison with files. Since I only own an em5 and gh3 cannot set the iso to 3200 and expect clean images when shooting AV mode in challenging light. This is where I can see people shooting even an A7mk1 to be extremely happy with the small bodied full frame.

For the price of the em-1 I still would have a hard time buying a $1200 body knowing new A7's go for about 1500 bucks. This is where a slower f/4 zoom on a full frame setup will not be so far off an M43 using f/2.8 zoom regarding dof "look".

If I was strictly shooting as a extremely enthusiastic hobbyist I would hope to use a platform that simply delivers "light sponge" capabilities for clean shots. Gear does not make the photographer but "better" gear certainly helps obtain your vision you see through the viewfinder in file form (raw/jpeg). If a person shoots beyond iso 3200 with less noise that was the biggest wishlist people prayed for in the era of the Canon 10d right up to the 70D canon dslr's (canon world). Even the Canon 7d was not even able to easily deliver somewhat clean images at iso 3200.

I do appreciate the M43 for being an excellent small package in good light. The M43 delivers great results but for my em-5 I do find contrast detection as a "wtf mis focus" while I never get that sort of situation with phase detect of my dslr's. This is of coarse contrast detect m43 bodies. I still haven't used the em-1 for any extended lengths to analyze folders upon folders for AF comparison. I bet the em1 is pretty darn good in af though....better than my em-5.

Many people talk about AF speed of the M43. This where I am finding confusion. You do not see any professional documenting sports events with m43 gear for critical sports coverage (ie Olympics etc). Virtually most photos I see on our m43 forum is landscape or slow moving subjects/portraits. I've been using a canon 5dmk2 with pig slow AF (relatively decent fast center focus) and capture moment during ceremony/reception in challenging wedding photography with clean spectacular files. Throw me in terrible low lighting and I'll say "bring it on....no sweat". With my 5dmk3 it's even easier on my nerves and care less how challenging the low light is. Speaking with my experience with my em-5.......I would fear unusable photos difficult to clean up in post....especially human subjects retaining skin texture.

On the same note as a hobbyist shooter I'd say obtaining clean images in low light will give nice skin texture photos of uncle bob. As a semi professional I'd appreciate less stress knowing gear meets my image quality criteria of presentable files to my clients regardless of available light shooting or fill flash photography for documenting once in a lifetime moments for clients. This is where getting paid for documentation of run/gun events is no laughing matter.

For a hobbyist if you miss a shot or its extremely grainy but good enough for print this may work for anyone using any type of platform. Be it lack of skills using a capable full frame to crop sensor to M43. For serious hobbyists this attitude is the opposite and they may seek the best of the best to capture maximum IQ their budget permits. I know more hobbyists using better gear than paid "professionals". For the M43 world there's a higher percentage of hardcore enthusiast vs a large percentage of paid professionals. Seems like they are attempting to draw more serious shooters for the M43 world.

People can use whatever gear they like as long as it satisfies their needs and needs of the clients. Ever meet a bridezilla?? if you play it safe with fill flash for everything any camera platform will work. Shoot available light is the most demanding situation for a camera and this is where a full frame may be beneficial. Again...use whatever meets your needs and if your shooting for $$ make certain your skills can achieve results presentable to clients.
 

mattia

Mu-43 Hall of Famer
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
2,391
Location
The Netherlands
AF speed and accuracy is better on my E-M1 than it was on my FF canon DSLR. This is for single shot AF speed - continuous AF is still a weak spot

The nature of contrast detect AF makes it more accurate, and the implementation on Oly and Panasonic cams is excellent, and very fast.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
7,397
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Real Name
Nic
I am happy that A7 works for you and it works for me as well . There is nothing wrong in having different option and I also use different formats and systems . If you want ultimate image quality and don't want video .. Just pick up Sigma Merrils and u will find they slaughter everything available in the market right from P&S and I in capable hands even NikonD810 . The thing which annoys me the most is when ever people pick up a FF , they suddenly become better photographers ,files become cleaner overnight , they start shooting at crazy ISO .. Like 90000000 etc etc . Come on guys m let's be mature .. Camera r just tools and every camera is more capable than what we are . I shot with Fuji X100 , Dp3 Merill and now I have Sony A7 with 55 1.8 but I love and extensively use my MFT gear . Having an other system makes me appreciate m43 more . If I find one or two stronger points about other formats then I also find many weak points as well .
If A7 works for u .. Very good ..enjoy it . I didn't bond with EP5 but many people love it .
Cheers
Bhupinder
Bhupinder, I'm happy that the Sigma Merrill works for you, but rather than slaughter everything available I often find images from those cameras look oversharpened and not particularly pleasant.

Did you see what I did there? You're trying to play peacemaker and yet throwing in your own "mine is better than yours" at the same time. It's not a whole different to someone going on about full frame shallow depth-of-field or suchlike.
 
Joined
Oct 9, 2010
Messages
7,397
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Real Name
Nic
I do appreciate the M43 for being an excellent small package in good light. The M43 delivers great results but for my em-5 I do find contrast detection as a "wtf mis focus" while I never get that sort of situation with phase detect of my dslr's. This is of coarse contrast detect m43 bodies. I still haven't used the em-1 for any extended lengths to analyze folders upon folders for AF comparison. I bet the em1 is pretty darn good in af though....better than my em-5.

Many people talk about AF speed of the M43. This where I am finding confusion. You do not see any professional documenting sports events with m43 gear for critical sports coverage (ie Olympics etc). Virtually most photos I see on our m43 forum is landscape or slow moving subjects/portraits. I've been using a canon 5dmk2 with pig slow AF (relatively decent fast center focus) and capture moment during ceremony/reception in challenging wedding photography with clean spectacular files. Throw me in terrible low lighting and I'll say "bring it on....no sweat". With my 5dmk3 it's even easier on my nerves and care less how challenging the low light is. Speaking with my experience with my em-5.......I would fear unusable photos difficult to clean up in post....especially human subjects retaining skin texture.
The E-M1's autofocus isn't all that different to the E-M5 for S-AF speed and accuracy to be honest, although that's no bad thing of course because the E-M5 was already very advanced for S-AF speed and being contrast-detect the autofocus is as good as it gets for accuracy.
 

T N Args

Agent Photocateur
Joined
Dec 3, 2013
Messages
3,480
Location
Adelaide, Australia
Real Name
call me Arg
With all due respects , I will take Olympus 12-40 anyway over Sony 24-70 . This Sony zooms is one of the crappiest premium lens around .
Putting aside what individuals feel like, I think lens tests have shown that the Zeiss for Sony 24-70 f/4 is a soft lens full stop. An A7r with it would probably have less resolution than a MFT camera.
 

WT21

Super Moderator
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
Messages
6,566
Location
Boston
Putting aside what individuals feel like, I think lens tests have shown that the Zeiss for Sony 24-70 f/4 is a soft lens full stop. An A7r with it would probably have less resolution than a MFT camera.
I have not done any testing on that lens, but I do remember from my Canon days that some of the older ff lenses looked soft on APS-C cameras, but shined on full frame bodies. I think it had to do with the larger pixels of the full frame cameras. Any rate, when reading about the 24-70, I would certainly look at what body it was tested on.

Another issue with Sony lenses is there seems to be a LOT of build variability.
 

AlanU

Mu-43 Veteran
Joined
May 2, 2012
Messages
488
The E-M1's autofocus isn't all that different to the E-M5 for S-AF speed and accuracy to be honest, although that's no bad thing of course because the E-M5 was already very advanced for S-AF speed and being contrast-detect the autofocus is as good as it gets for accuracy.
oh... I thought the hybrid AF was going to dramatically change the AF accuracy. I just haven't played with it long enough to do comparison against my em-5.

When I shoot events with my dslr I do get missed shots but this is 100% my fault due to incorrect placement of focus point. However with my em-5 I will get plenty back/front focus photos when i do not expect such mis focused photos regardless of what lens I use on my m43 platform. This is where I've lost some confidence when I use my m43 gear. This is where phase detect AF gives me a piece of mind. I'll admit when I used a staff party/function recently the hit rate was very good for slower paced events. There are times I've noticed more error's caused by my gear (m43) that shocked me after analyzing the folder filled with an event "shoot".

Not sure how well the gh4 does with its "predictive" AF with panny lenses. I feel I'd be testing out more m43 bodies in the future. For now I like the smaller form factor as a secondary system. However I'd be buying a second 5dmk3 or soon to be released 5dmk4/3d before buying anymore M43 body or A7s sony. I'll see how things go. For now my m43 works for my intended purposes :)
 
Links on this page may be to our affiliates. Sales through affiliate links may benefit this site.
Mu-43 is a fan site and not associated with Olympus, Panasonic, or other manufacturers mentioned on this site.
Forum post reactions by Twemoji: https://github.com/twitter/twemoji
Copyright © 2009-2019 Amin Forums, LLC
Top Bottom