Small lens for 'dedicated' pano setup?

[dwkdnvr]

I'm mulling over an idea and thought I'd see what folks think.

We have a trip to NZ coming up in Feb, and I'm probably looking at using the 12-100 as my primary lens. (see context here anyone 'regret' upgrading from E-M5II to E-M1II?).
Since 12mm is almost certainly not going to be wide enough in all cases, and a body upgrade would leave no room in the budget for the 8-18, I'm considering trying to set up my E-PM2 (or possibly original E-M5) as a dedicated camera for stitched panoramas - it seems attractive to have a small rig ready to be slapped on a tripod/monopod rather than hassle with rejigging the main camera to do so. I'm not entirely sure this is strictly necessary, but it seems like a fun idea to explore.

For this to make sense and not just be a case of 'carrying a 2nd body', it would have to be small. So the criteria is
- small(ish)
- cheap(ish)
- wide enough for decent vertical coverage
- sharp, and possibly more importantly sharp across the frame.

The candidates seem to be the P20, Sigma 19 or the P12-32. The 12-32 might be the best candidate due to flexibility, but lack of a manual focus capability might make it tricky. The S19 is interesting in that some reviews indicate amazing sharpness and uniformity, but I see others that are less compelling. The P20 is probably the safest bet, although 20 might be a shade long in some cases.

Has anyone done anything like this? Any options I should be looking at in addition to the above? Am I over-thinking this and really should just use the 12-100 since it's going to be better than other options?

 

[Gillymaru]

The 12-100 will do panos nicely so there is really isn’t much point in getting a separate system just for those. Where the 20mm might come in handy on a small body is for low light shooting and just taking those holiday snaps on the plane, in restaurants and hotels etc. The 20mm lens is a great travel lens, so small it fits anywhere and the image quality is top notch, the only drawback with it is that is a slow autofocuser but that rarely worries me.

 

[Growltiger]

I do panos handheld with no problems. Hold the camera vertically and rotate your body, allowing a one third overlap with each photo. Typically I take 10 to 15 photos depending on the width required. No tripod or monopod needed. An example for you (zoom in with your mouse wheel): Goreme pano

When travelling I usually take the Oly 9-18 lens. Used at 9mm at f/5.6 it is a good little lens, so small and light it won't burden you. While more limited than the Oly 7-14 it still manages to deliver good results. The modern Oly cameras correct its CA automatically, which overcomes one of its original issues. (I don't mean to imply you should use this for the panos, use the 12-100)

 

[Jock Elliott]

Why not the Oly 17mm f.1.8? I've used it for handheld panos (stitched together with ICE) and it gives you a really good low light option.

Cheers, Jock

 

[RAH]

Generally speaking, I think it is best to not use any lens that is too wide, because you get distortion at the top and bottom (yes, you should shoot VERTICALLY, as others have mentioned). Also, under most conditions, since you are going to get a WIDE shot anyway (after the stitching), you need a little reach so things in the distance don't appear too small (as often happens shooting landscapes with wide lenses). So I think the minimum focal length should be 25 (50 equiv), and up, depending on what you are shooting.

Given those thoughts, the 12-32 would seem to be about perfect, IMHO. I suppose a 20mm lens would be OK, but it's not like the 12-32 is going to take up much room. Yes, the 12-100 would be fine, of course, but it's kind of large and heavy. I think a 25mm prime lens of any type would be very good too, depending on your budget.

As far as manual focus, you mentioned the 12-32 not being good at it, but usually you'd start using autofocus, take one shot, then switch to MF. I mena, you aren't really trying to focus manually, you just don't want it to change. Same with exposure, of course. After getting an exposure i\on the first shot, either switch to manual mode or use Exposure Lock (AEL button). I usually do that because it is easier.

 

[Hypilein]

I have done panos with the 20 and they came out fine. The nodal point is right where the front element is, so it's easy to find in the field. That said, I would like to mention two things.

1. As others mentioned the 12-100 is probably fine for panos and the only thing you really need in addition is an L-Plate which should be attached to your main camera anyway. I don't really see the need for a "Pano Setup"
2. I would postpone the body upgrade in favour of the lens upgrade. The lens will give you a host of creative possibilities (and ultra wide is not the same as Pano, and neither can replace the other IMO). I've even shot Panos at 7mm and came away with some spectacular images although I did have to crop a bit of the corners away. The Body will give you 4mp extra resolution and insane AF and Burst speeds that likely won't really need in travel photography.

 

[AndyT]

I have just returned from a hiking trip to Nepal, took my EM1II and 12-100 (I upgraded from an EM5).
I had a few other lenses too (PL 25mm 1.4, Oly 8mm FE and Pany 14mm 2.5)

The 12-100 was all the lens I needed, shot quite a few panoramas with it and some HDR too - all handheld.
The dual IS works like a charm, as others have said just shoot in portrait (vertical) orientation, set focus and exposure on the first shot and away you go.

I only used the 25mm for low light and interior shots, the FE for a few others. Don't think the 14mm ever got mounted on the camera.

 

[dwkdnvr]

Thanks for the feedback - some food for thought.

I do think that the focal length question is a tough one. I shot a lot this summer with a 28mm Pentax on my A7II, and from my calcs a 20mm prime on m43 in portrait orientation would give the same vertical coverage. This seems like a decent compromise if you're looking at a prime, but also illustrates why the zoom is attractive.

To elaborate on my thinking on why a separate rig might be attractive (and yes, I'm almost certainly over-thinking this)

• I'm expecting to 'standardize' on HDR panos in order to have a uniform process (and to compensate for the shortcomings of the older sensors), which (in my mind anyway) would seem to be more reliable on a tripod. Maybe I need to do some more experimentation with this, but it would seem to reduce the chance of alignment problems in the hdr stack and to give some safety margin if the brackets push the shutter speed a bit.
• avoids the hassle of re-configuring the main camera to shoot panos. Maybe this is just a reflection that I have to learn MySets better, though.
• segregates all the hdr pano stacks off into a separate card which helps with cataloging. I find it a bit of a pain to have stacks show up in the middle of 'normal' shots.
• I just kinda like the idea of a tiny little E-PM2 + pancake being my 'high end landscape rig'

I think the takeaway though is that I have to spend some time establishing a routine and practicing it. There's no doubt that optically the 12-100 is going to be as good or better than any other option, the question is whether the convenience of having a dedicated setup makes things easier or not. (well, aside from whether there is a tiny lens that works well enough for this)

 

[Funks]

Here's my setup..

GX85 - Landscape Photo Gear on the GO.

Albeit - the 12-35mm is a bit big for some people. Everything fits in the Mirrorless Mover 25i bag.

Hiking the Milford Track and parts of the Abel Tasman..

 

[Petrochemist]

Unless you have subject matter close to the camera stitching is easily done totally ignoring the nodal point rotation that a proper pano rig ensures.
I've used Microsoft ICE to stitch a series of about 9 photos (portrait format with a long lens) the shots were all taken quickly, handheld from a moving ship. Looking at the resultant file at 100% I've only managed to find 3 of the joins. Under more normal conditions it's likely to produce perfect results.

I'd be inclined to get something like the 17mm 2.8 (significantly smaller & cheaper than the better regarded 1.8 version) so that you can just slip it in your pocket for when you want something fast & unobtrusive. Your 12-100 will do for most other occasions.

 

[RAH]

I agree that you do not have to bother with nodal point considerations for most landscapes without anything close. I also use Microsoft ICE and it is amazing in its ability to stitch.

I mentioned it before, but I will again - I think it is better to use at least 25mm (50 equiv) for panos because you do not need a wide lens, and unless you REALLY like a lot of sky in your vertical shots, you're better of with 25-35mm FL. IMHO. For example, I shot 2 pano series at Dead Horse Point in Utah, using my P12-35 lens. I forgot to check the focal length on the first set and used at about 20mm. For the next set, I increased the FL to about 30mm. When I stitched together the results at home, of course they were very similar but I just wound up cropping the 20mm series much more, removing a lot of useless foreground and sky. So the 30mm series was much better because I kept more MPs. Obviously it depends on what you are shooting, but in a lot of landscape situations, you want to feature the central interest more than sky. For some shots, like faraway mountains, you might even want to use say 75 or 100mm (150-200 equiv).

 

[Gerard]

Thanks for the feedback - some food for thought.

I do think that the focal length question is a tough one. I shot a lot this summer with a 28mm Pentax on my A7II, and from my calcs a 20mm prime on m43 in portrait orientation would give the same vertical coverage. This seems like a decent compromise if you're looking at a prime, but also illustrates why the zoom is attractive.

To elaborate on my thinking on why a separate rig might be attractive (and yes, I'm almost certainly over-thinking this)

• I'm expecting to 'standardize' on HDR panos in order to have a uniform process (and to compensate for the shortcomings of the older sensors), which (in my mind anyway) would seem to be more reliable on a tripod. Maybe I need to do some more experimentation with this, but it would seem to reduce the chance of alignment problems in the hdr stack and to give some safety margin if the brackets push the shutter speed a bit.
• avoids the hassle of re-configuring the main camera to shoot panos. Maybe this is just a reflection that I have to learn MySets better, though.
• segregates all the hdr pano stacks off into a separate card which helps with cataloging. I find it a bit of a pain to have stacks show up in the middle of 'normal' shots.
• I just kinda like the idea of a tiny little E-PM2 + pancake being my 'high end landscape rig'

I think the takeaway though is that I have to spend some time establishing a routine and practicing it. There's no doubt that optically the 12-100 is going to be as good or better than any other option, the question is whether the convenience of having a dedicated setup makes things easier or not. (well, aside from whether there is a tiny lens that works well enough for this)

2nd bullit. My advice is to put some effort in reading the manual regarding the mysets. On my EP5 can rotate the main switch (the PSAM ring) to get me one of the mysets. As usual it is somewhat hidden in the menu, but OTOH far from rocket science.
3th bullit before and after a stack of photos, be it HDR or Pano, you might take a shot of your hand. Relieve of yor perceived pain AND gives you an emergency plan B for correcting whitebalance.
4th bullit The PM1 is a wonderfull machine.
Just like you I'll be in NZ next feb and i will bring it as a second body. 2 bodies, 2 lenses.

 

[Mountain]

If you're doing stitched panos, the 12-100 seems ideal. You'll be stopped down anyway, so a fast lens wouldn't help, zooms are handy for eliminating extra sky, and you would be hard pressed to find a sharper alternative. IMHO you would be better off bringing either a fast lens for low light stuff or something outside the 12-100, either UWA or telephoto.

 

[Hypilein]

I don't think that there is a hard and fast rule of using standard lenses for Panos. But, when using ultrawides and then stitching rotating around the proper nodal point becomes more important. In many situations (if not most) using a standard lens for you panos is what you want, but some more dramatic compositions can only be achieved by use of an ultra wide.

This shot (which I've posted before, as it's probably one of my all time favourites) is a stitch of about 6 or 7 vertical photos shot at 7mm on the P7-14 using a simplified Nodal setup (Nodal slide on ballhead on leveling base).

Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)

I had to crop a bit at the bottom, because sharpness suffered there slightly (possibly stretching and/or DOF related) but as you can see the Waterfall in the back has not got that much headroom, while I still wanted the foreground waterfall with the valley below it in the frame. If you just want to "get it all in" than usually a 25mm (50eq) pano is fine though.

 

[ex machina]

I almost always use my p20 for stitched gigapixel panos under the assumption that a low-distortion and very sharp lens will make for better stitching/zooming.

 

[marcsitkin]

I currently use a 28mm Canon EF f 2.8 on an Em5 body, which is mounted to a Nodal Ninja Pano arm and NN indexing head. 20 degree segments gives me enough overlap for a good stitch, and a large file to work with.
I assemble in PTGui after processing RAWs to 16 bit tiff in LR.

To me the advantage of a manual focus lens is that once you get it dialed in, you can set it and forget it. Same goes for the aperture settings. That only leaves the shutter speed setting on camera to get ready for the shot. I use an EZ leveller II between the rotator and tripod to facilitate a faster levelling process. The biggest disadvantage to me of this setup is it's not very portable, as the Nodal Ninja gear is really meant for DSLR sized gear. You might want to head over here: Links - PTGui Stitching Software for more resources on pano mounts.

I plan on making an automated rotator this winter using small stepper motors to handle panos of various sweeps and tilts, driven by an Arduino microboard. My goal is something very simple to operate in the field, where I basically need to choose on of 3 sweep settings and how many rows I shoot.

Here's a link to my home page, which features panos dating back to the age of film, as well as stitched images from various systems. panorama, landscape and sport photography

Best of luck, and happy shooting