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Sigma DP2 Merrill or Sony RX1

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by scarbrd, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. scarbrd

    scarbrd Mu-43 Regular

    Jul 1, 2011
    Houston, TX
    I am fully sold on m4/3 for my main system.

    But like in my 35mm film days, I liked having the Fuji fixed lens medium format camera around for high quality, high detailed landscapes.

    I that vein, there are 2 intriguing compact digital cameras that could fill that niche:

    The Sigma DP2 Merrill with the highly touted Foveon processor at 15MP (x3)

    and the Sony RX1 - the first full frame fixed lens compact.

    Price aside, I am interested if what people on this site think about the 2 offerings.

    Does a ASP-C Fovoen sensor best the FF Sony?


    Anyone here use the Sigma?

    I think both cameras will be unwieldy compared to the OM-D system that I use, and certainly not as versatile. However, like with medium format cameras of yore, with patience, the end result can be special.
  2. spinyman

    spinyman Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Nov 19, 2010
    San Diego
    Too early to judge without reviews.Also, I could not put the $2000 difference aside.
  3. Amin Sabet

    Amin Sabet Administrator

    Apr 10, 2009
    Boston, MA (USA)
    We don't know about the Sony optics, but assuming that lens is outstanding, the Sony will capture more total detail. Foveon has a special look all its own though and for shooting at base ISO it will likely give the Sony a run for its money.
  4. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Have you considered stitching? For landscapes where not much moves, a 3 frame stitch with the OM-D will get you easily to a 32MP 3:2 image.

    I'm sure one can get great results from Sigma, but it is an additional complication (different controls and setup) and you're stuck using the monumentally unfriendly Sigma software to process the images.

    As to the RX1, it strikes me as more of a street shooting camera than a landscape one. But YMMV.

    • Like Like x 1
  5. Rinaldo

    Rinaldo Mu-43 Regular

    Aug 9, 2012
    Sao Paulo, Brazil
    I feel that Sigma will still beat RX1 at base ISO.
  6. nickthetasmaniac

    nickthetasmaniac Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 11, 2011
    Price... Well, that's you call so I wont comment.

    I'd have a read of this recent 'review' of the DP2M by MR over at Luminous Landscape. He gives an interesting breakdown of the various pros and cons - it would seem that its exceptional at somethings and fairly crap at everything else, not to mention the issues with RAW and processing software... He end up saying that its "definitely not for camera pussies..."

    Sigma DP2M Review

    The way I see it... The DP2M and RX1 will be about even under perfect conditions for the Sigma - namely low-ISO work where speed isn't a pressing issue.

    Under all other conditions, I think that the Sony will blow the Sigma away. Its going to focus faster, its going to operate faster, its going to be much better in low light, it has a faster lens and a bigger sensor, its going to be compatible with all major software basically from release.

    For me, if price isn't an issue then this isn't even a contest.

    But then the RX1 might get reviewed and turn out to be terrible... But I doubt it :smile:
  7. digitalandfilm

    digitalandfilm Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jul 18, 2011
    I agree.. the RX1 *should* be better in low light, and the lens is faster- so it should prevail.

    HOWEVER- the IQ in good light and non-moving subjects will be like night and day.
  8. jloden

    jloden Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2012
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Given the choice between two cameras where they're likely to both have exceptional performance in the area you're interested in, but one is going to be far more useful everywhere else (Sony RX1), I'd pick the more versatile one. Especially if it's going to be that kind of cash outlay to get it, I'd want to be able to use it in many situations. So out of those two the Sony would get my vote - assuming it lives up to its promise.
  9. phrenic

    phrenic Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 13, 2010
    I don't think you can go too wrong with either one. Optimized optics and sensors will be great I'm sure. Rx1 should be more cersatile but looks larger and I personally am a bit dubious of the value equation. I have to say I have been excited by all the new camera releases the last little while. M43 is a very versatile format, but i can also see myself carrying a dedicad dingle purpose camera for slower shooting opportunities.

    Sent from my iPad using Mu-43 App
  10. scarbrd

    scarbrd Mu-43 Regular

    Jul 1, 2011
    Houston, TX
    I do stitching quite a bit, also with HDR. I've used as many as 15 frames to create a 5 frame HDR panorama. No easy task.

    With the 45mm (equiv) on the Sigma, I figure there will be some stitching involved there as well.

    You're right, the OM-D does produce very good results with stitching.
  11. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Definitely not. I'm happy when I can line up 4 frames almost evenly!

    Good point. I guess if you want a compact camera with good resolution for stitching, I'd personally lean more toward a NEX-7 + 30/2.8 lens. The Sigma will have better real resolution, but not by a huge margin, and the usability Sony is just drastically better (not simply the camera, but also the workflow). If the Sigma were $500, that might tip the balance for me, but $1k is good amount of money, and if you ever were to sell the Sigma, you'd take a huge hit.

  12. nickthetasmaniac

    nickthetasmaniac Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 11, 2011
    Night and day to which one? Most real world reviews seem to think the 45mp Foveon resolves about the same amount of detail as a good 24-28mp Bayer sensor.
  13. scarbrd

    scarbrd Mu-43 Regular

    Jul 1, 2011
    Houston, TX
    Can't you link us to any of those reviews? Thanks!
  14. lenshoarder

    lenshoarder Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 7, 2010
    I agree with this. The true resolution of a Bayer sensor is about half what the stated resolution is. So the RX1's true resolution is about 13 MP. Comparable to the DP1/2M. So to make it fair, how would a RX1 image scaled to 15MP compare to a Foveon at 15MP?

    Other than that, the RX1 should be night and day over the DP1/2M. The DPs have always been great sensors in not so good bodies. I really wish Sigma would partner with another camera manufacturer and apply that sensor in a good camera. I always wanted a DP1/2. The problem is when I'm in a store playing with it, I get flashbacks to my first digital camera in 1999.
  15. nickthetasmaniac

    nickthetasmaniac Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 11, 2011
    The luminous landscape article I linked earlier has comparisons between the DP2M and several APS and Full Frame systems.
  16. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Bhupinder2002

    Bhupinder2002 Mu-43 Hall of Famer Subscribing Member

    None of them ... DP2 Meriil will have AF issues and Sony RX1 has yet to prove if its worth the price .
  18. kevwilfoto

    kevwilfoto Mu-43 Veteran

    Sep 23, 2011
    If you're going to do HDR + stitching, I think the SD1/2M would best the RX1 due to the much lower price, assuming you don't want to use raw files.

    The detail captured by the SD1/2M with new 15MP Foveon sensor (46MP my ass!) and matched lens is extremely high. I suspect the rest of the camera may be a bit of a let down, quality wise, and the poor raw file support from Adobe et. al. would be a problem if I were in your shoes. The sharp detail may come at a high price (figuratively speaking).

    The RX1 will likely be a better made camera, the sensor + lens combo should be excellent, and the images will probably process in normal raw photo editors just fine. Tonal contrast and dynamic range will likely be better, and the Zeiss 35/2 does have "great micro-contrast" as all the reviewers like to say. Again, high quality comes at a very high price (literally).

    Both would be very interesting to me at half the price, but at their current prices ... I guess I can't do "price aside" ... if you want to go there, would you pick one of these over the rumored Leica M10 and one lens (35/1.4 or 50/0.95)? Perhaps you would!?
    • Like Like x 1
  19. digitalandfilm

    digitalandfilm Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jul 18, 2011
    Here's a shot with DP2 and normal lens.

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/88068576@N08/8060956777/" title="8 Spruce Street by omdandom2n, on Flickr">
    Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
    "544" height="1024" alt="8 Spruce Street"></a>
  20. digitalandfilm

    digitalandfilm Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jul 18, 2011
    More with DP2

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/88068576@N08/8353936751/" title="williamsburg bridge by omdandom2n, on Flickr">
    Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
    "900" height="600" alt="williamsburg bridge"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/88068576@N08/8353936719/" title="surrogates court by omdandom2n, on Flickr">
    Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
    "900" height="541" alt="surrogates court"></a>

    <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/88068576@N08/8353936647/" title="washington heights by omdandom2n, on Flickr">
    Subscribe to see EXIF info for this image (if available)
    "900" height="533" alt="washington heights"></a>
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