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Sigma and Pentax Sales DOWN

Discussion in 'Other Systems' started by MrDoug, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. MrDoug

    MrDoug Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Sep 5, 2011
    Boise, Idaho
    I saw today.. (sorry no link) that Sigma, Sony and Pentax Sales are way down..I wonder why? sheesh.. I think Sony and Pentax should have made their current model cams and lenses to be compatible with the popular models such as Olympus and Panasonic four thirds cameras.. they are missing the BOAT..
  2. Linh

    Linh Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Apr 14, 2009
    Maryland, US
    Sony is huge. So them being down is difficult to measure what exactly is the problem. But the NEX line is far from "failed" as it's gained quite a bit of fanfare with the latest iteration. Yes, they lack the lens lineup that m43 has, but they have a much larger presence for marketing (at least, in the US).

    Pentax... that's a given. Sigma... pretty much a given too I think. They don't really do anything big outside of lenses, no? And with the economy still in the tanker, people are likely holding back on purchases, or making "safe" purchases w/ their brand lens.

    I do think Pentax should have went m43 with their lens history. It would have been interesting. But who is going to source their sensor? I don't think Sony is going to make it unless you pay them a BOAT load. And Panasonic seems to be withholding from even oly (or so it seems).
  3. * Sony is rather large R&D department with a budget to match. They produce their own sensors for their own system as well as supply other brands with sensors. From their standpoint, there is no value proposition riding in on the coat tails of Olympus and Panasonic. They would be bound by the micro 4/3 standard and probably had enough off the shelf components to build the initial offerings rather cheaply. They are doing the typical electronics giant does.... focus on a particular component. For photographic market, it is a mis-step as a system is comprised of not only the camera but also the lenses. The NEX system lacks in the latter. The APS sized sensor is a blessing (nicer imaging sensor) and curse (more complex optical designs that tend to get larger).

    * Pentax Sales are down.... well its pretty obvious since they were recently sold to Ricoh. Their sales channel sucks (limited retail chain presence). Their marketing sucks. They are have consistently been late to the market (among the last with a DSLR worth noting.. K10D circa 2006). They fail to execute on their designs in a timely manner (645D). Just like the economy, all of the above makes for a questionable outlook and less people will likely invest. I am a long time fan of the Pentax brand..... love / hate in recent years.

    * Sigma has much the same problem as Pentax. They have had taken a hit with quality issues on their lens line. Tamron has done a number on them in reviews and popularity on the third party consumer market. Marketing.. bleh. I don't think I have ever seen a Sigma camera in a retail shop ... ever. My local shop echos the same complaints that I have heard in several places. Sigma is a royal PITA to deal with as a retail partner. So they stopped carrying their line. Regular consumers have no reasonable affordable way into their system. What is sad is that I believe they have everything it takes to present a competitive system; Body, Lenses, a unique sensor. Even their high end P&S has done reasonably well in reviews but I have yet to see a single Sigma camera in the past... oh.. 5 years. They have cornered themselves as a brand that makes accessories.. er... lenses for other brands.

    Lets not forget that the economy doesn't lend very well to the smaller competitors with limited R&D resources. Also the micro 4/3 system isn't exactly the market leader in the US.. yet... Oly/Panny realized that beating the big two would be difficult and tried to create a market for themselves. No reason why Sony (or even Pentax) wouldn't think they couldn't do the same.
  4. s0nus

    s0nus Mu-43 Veteran

    Dec 13, 2010
    I wasn't even aware that Sigma manufactures cameras ...
  5. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    They are specialized DSLRs with Foveon sensors. Not bad cameras... Their latest iteration was priced out of the range of most people though.

    But they really need to get cracking on making some Micro Four-Thirds lenses. They never officially dropped their commitment to Four-Thirds, they just started discontinuing all their lenses for the system (and some of them were very good ones, too!). They made their verbal commitment to Micro Four-Thirds, but haven't followed through with any action.

    I kinda agree with Mr. Doug... they are missing the boat on a rapidly growing new market.
  6. Luke

    Luke Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jul 30, 2010
    Milwaukee, WI
    I just drove all over the city hoping to compare an E-P3 and an admittedly totally different camera a Pentax K-r. The big box store carried neither so I went to ye olde Camera Shoppe (my description of an old time independently owned specialty camera store) and they stopped carrying Pentax and the only Olys they had were the E-P1 and E-P2. I think the market needs to shrink a little bit if it hopes to flourish. There's too many nearly identical cameras competing for VERY few dollars.
  7. which brings me to my rant... the Pentax 645D which was announced at a very low price point many many years ago. They even had a working prototype with 16mp sensor. There were still a few studio shops invested in their 645 lenses (me included) which they could have capitalized. An affordable MF digital.. that would have set them apart.

    What did they do?


    Only to bring it back 6 years+ later when the smaller shops abandoned MF for digital SLRs from the likes of Canon and Nikon. The first "affordable" MF digital was only on sale in Japan. Where are largest fashion and advertising centers of the world? They are all not in Japan.

    I still have my dust covered Pentax 645 system that I do miss... but alas.. I too got tired of being strung along only to wait with no clear indication of intention to bring anything interesting to market.
  8. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    I'm not sure that is true. The Panasonic sensor division is separate from the camera division and have their own sales targets to meet. My guess is that they'd sell to anyone who wanted them, Olympus included.

    I know people are perplexed why Olympus are still using 12mp but, rightly or wrongly, I think they have decided it's as far as they go. It's certainly enough for me. More pixels or, more accurately, smaller pixels, means diffusion sets in at larger apertures. On lenses with an f5.6 or f6.3 maximum aperture there is a danger that difussion could kick in almost before the lens is stopped down if the sensor becomes too populated.

    The 12mp sensor does need updating, though, which is exactly what Olympus appear to have done (or got Panasonic to do to their specifications), albeit mainly to improve speed in conjunction with the new processor, to give a better refresh rate and faster focusing. This could be the start of Olympus designing their own sensors to improve overall IQ as well; after all Panny are hardly likely to develop the 12mp sensor any further, having now got to 16mp plus themselves.
  9. Ned

    Ned Mu-43 Legend

    Jul 18, 2010
    Alberta, Canada
    I don't think it's that they don't want to go beyond 12MP, but that they don't want to go beyond 12MP -until- their technology has reached the point where it can handle higher megapixels while retaining the same quality of image in each of those megapixels.
  10. goldenlight

    goldenlight Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 30, 2010
    That's more to the point, Ned, thank you. :smile:
  11. Linh

    Linh Mu-43 All-Pro Subscribing Member

    Apr 14, 2009
    Maryland, US
    indeed. I forget that the panasonic sensor is really more panasonic's work than the sensor itself. both companies could use an infusion of work in that department. Ideally, nikon would have thrown the world for a loop and joined m43.. and applying their knowledge to what panasonic might sell them. boom, awesome competition =) I'm still hoping pentax throws in what weight they have, heh
  12. drizek

    drizek Mu-43 Veteran

    Aug 5, 2011
    Panasonic just can't make 16MP sensors fast enough, that's why the GF3 is still on 12MP and why the G3 is always in short supply and why Olympus doesn't have access to it yet.
  13. nickthetasmaniac

    nickthetasmaniac Mu-43 All-Pro

    Jan 11, 2011
    The fact remains that's it's been a huge seller (my MF standards) since release...
  14. Canonista

    Canonista Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Sep 3, 2011
    Doesn't Nikon (and Canon) already do that with p&s sensors that they buy from Sony, but which they then tweak with their own digital processor designs? I would love to see both companies join the fight with m43 systems. Of course, that would never happen while their entry-level DSLRs continue to sell.
  15. GaryAyala

    GaryAyala Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    I think Canon makes all of their sensors in-house.
  16. Canonista

    Canonista Mu-43 Top Veteran

    Sep 3, 2011
  17. GaryAyala

    GaryAyala Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 2, 2011
    So much for me thinking ... thanks for the update.

  18. Toonman

    Toonman Mu-43 Regular

    Jul 19, 2010
    Here is my 'penny worth' of opinion. Pentax (now owned by Ricoh) will stop making DSLR's and concentrate on smaller cameras. I just hope they are better than the truly aweful looking and ill thought out 'toys' they have just brought out.
  19. But aren't DSLRs the most competitive products that Pentax makes?
  20. Hikari

    Hikari Mu-43 All-Pro

    Nov 26, 2010
    Those big ad and fashion firms you talk about moved from film more than 6 years ago and were using bigger backs. Japan also has a huge advertising market; you might be surprise at the number of international companies that are Japanese. (Tokyo is one of the largest cities in the world.) Beside, there was tremendous risk bring out this camera. Where better to launch it than in a market they know and can support. And now the camera is in those other markets. BTW, Pentax is not pitching this as a studio camera.

    So now Pentax has made an affordable MFD camera. You are not going to buy it because Pentax did not do what you wanted them to do in the past? Pentax did not design their R&D and production schedule to personally insult you. Actually, I am far happier with the current 40MP 645D than I would have been with a 6-year-old 16MP 645D. (I would be happy to take your old glass off your hands since they are worthless.)

    And the 645D really does set them apart, even today.
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