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Shutter speed issues on EM1

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by Ehoeft, Mar 13, 2015.

  1. Ehoeft

    Ehoeft Mu-43 Rookie

    10
    Mar 10, 2015
    Let me first start out by saying I'm new to photography and my EM1 going on 5 months now. I shoot mostly my 5 month old daughter. Now that's she's moving more and more I'm having a hard time getting pictures that's aren't blurry or out of focus.
    I shoot in A priority mode at 2.8 most of the time on my 12-40pro. Whenever I put it in shutter priority or manual priority to set my own shutter speed, it come out way under exposed and the picture is black. I have no clue what I'm doing wrong with this camera. I've tried to post process this in lightroom and the pictures aren't salvageable.
    Can anyone tell me what I have set up wrong for my in camera settings?
    Thanks in advance,
    Frustrated Dad
     
  2. damianmkv

    damianmkv Mu-43 Veteran

    364
    Nov 7, 2014
    Surrey, England
    Have you got the ISO upper limit set quite low ? If it is ( say ) 200, then you will need a longer exposure in darker conditions but it sounds like you're needing a quick shutter speed to capture your daughter so it's coming out black as not enough light is coming in

    Hope that makes sense
     
  3. maritan

    maritan Mu-43 Veteran

    388
    Oct 30, 2014
    Do you have examples you could share with us? With exif data intact.
     
  4. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    Is there anything blinking when you take the shot, like the aperture number? How do you choose the speed to use? Indoor you are going to need very low values or high ISO
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015
  5. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    Try buying a flash. I suspect you're just using too low a shutter speed in A mode and then under exposing in S and M modes. However, an example with EXIF intact is needed to really be sure.
     
  6. m43happy

    m43happy Mu-43 Veteran

    430
    Feb 18, 2012
    Other than shooting at f/2.8 what are your other settings? What ISO?
     
  7. Ehoeft

    Ehoeft Mu-43 Rookie

    10
    Mar 10, 2015
    In A mode it chooses the shutter speed for you and it's never high enough to freeze my daughter. So than I try to go into Manual mode or Shutter mode so I can set my own shutter speed. When I do this even with high or low ISO it comes out black. What other settings in camera do you need to do when raising the shutter speed?It's like this even in bright sunny indoor conditions. I will say when outside in A mode it sets my shutter between 2000-8000 so I don't have that problem. Only indoors.
    I shoot raw so how do I upload a picture showing the EXIF content.
    I'm sorry I'm a complete nube when it come to all this. Still trying to learn.
     
  8. Ehoeft

    Ehoeft Mu-43 Rookie

    10
    Mar 10, 2015
    Yes when I go into S or M mode the aperture number blinks. I've set the ISO from 200-2500 and it still produces a black image
     
  9. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    When you choose the shutter speed the camera computes an aperture value and ISO value to give you an (approximately) correct exposure.
    When the aperture value blinks means that the lens you are using cannot go to the computed aperture.
    Depending on how much light is missing a faster lens (like 1.8, 1.4, etc.) could help but if the light is really low the only option is to use a longer shutter speed.
    The 12-40 is a reasonably fast lens, it shouldn't be the problem. Speeds like 1/1000 and above are usually impossible to use unless you have a sunny day.

    To fix this:
    - use a longer time (smaller number). 1/60 or 1/100 should be enough to freeze normal human movements
    - set a higher range for the iso, I'd go to 3200 or even 6400
    - add more physical light or get closer to a light
    - google for "exposure triangle"
    - try a faster lens
    - use a flash
    - switch to A mode, set maximum aperture and notice what shutter speed the camera is computing when you half-pressing the button: you won't be able to use a value much different from that one
     
  10. Ehoeft

    Ehoeft Mu-43 Rookie

    10
    Mar 10, 2015
    Thanks for your response Klorenzo!
    I've noticed that anytime I try to put my shutter over 15 my image gets darker. Most of the time when I press my shutter halfway in A mode my shutter speed is around 6-15 unless I'm outside than I don't have a problem freezing movement.
    I'm still confused but I appreciate all the responses.
    Question with running a high ISO.... I've always thought that when you run a high ISO you get lots of noise?
    When I first got my camera I didn't know it was taking pictures at 12800 ISO which I'm severally mad cause all my daughter pics from birth to 1 month are all grainy with tons of noise that I can't get out. Plus I didn't know to shot in raw and they were all JPEG. Live and learn.
     
  11. damianmkv

    damianmkv Mu-43 Veteran

    364
    Nov 7, 2014
    Surrey, England
    6-15 means 1/6s to 1/15s ? That's far too low to get sharp pictures ( or even any )

    The Olympus range will run high ISO no problem, don't be afraid to run at iso3200 or 4000. At 12800, you'll struggle.

    I'm still intrigued as to the high ISO that you have set
     
  12. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    I suggest you read this - without basic knowledge it'll be hard for people here to help you.
     
  13. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    The lower the ISO the better, but usually a noisy photo is better than no photo or a blurry photo.
    With RAW, Lightroom and some patience you can handle noise quite well up to 3200/6400 but noise tolerance is very personal. You can leave the auto range as it is and manually select a different value for these shots only.
    At 1/15 or 1/20 you can still get some pictures if you are very steady but the results mostly depends on how fast your daughter moves.
    A faster lens could help here and almost solve the problem, but I still suggest to first study the "exposure triangle" to understand why and how much a faster lens (1.8, 1.4, etc.) matters.
     
  14. Ehoeft

    Ehoeft Mu-43 Rookie

    10
    Mar 10, 2015
    Thanks pdk42 I will read this. Sorry for my lack of knowledge on this.
    Btw in the settings I have my low and high ISO set to 200 low and 1600 high. Maybe I should change that.
    Just curious what modes all of your shoot that have the em1. Obviously when you shoot in aperture priority mode you have no control over shutter speed. So how does everyone deal with moving objects? S-AF or maybe C-AF? Flash? I have the olympus FL-600R in my cart that I'm gonna order. Hopefully this would help allowing me to get more light while in shutter priority or manual mode.
    As to the faster lens I still have this problem with the 45 f1.8
     
  15. pdk42

    pdk42 One of the "Eh?" team

    Jan 11, 2013
    Leamington Spa, UK
    I think a flash is probably a good move. Before you buy the Fl600R though, try using the E-M1's little flash. It's not particularly powerful and you can't bounce it, but it'll act as a good tool to help you learn flash - and TBH, using flash well is quite a challenge too!
     
  16. Ehoeft

    Ehoeft Mu-43 Rookie

    10
    Mar 10, 2015

    Awesome lol... Another hurdle to tackle. I just don't get what's the problem. You'd think with a 1.8 or 2.8 aperture lens, daylight indoors and an ISO at 800- 6400 would allow me to raise my shutter speed over 1/30 to freeze motion without getting a very dark image. When I get back home outta town I'll have to figure a way to post a Image so everyone can see what I'm talking about
     
  17. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    Going from iso 1600 to 3200 gives you twice the speed (one "stop"). So where you had 1/15 now you have 1/30. And you get 1/60 if you go to 6400.
    With the 45/1.8 you get another 3x, so you should get to 1/90 or 1/180 depending on the ISO you use, using auto ISO it will probably stop around 1/100 lowering the ISO a little.
     
  18. SpecFoto

    SpecFoto Mu-43 Veteran

    312
    Aug 28, 2012
    So Cal
    Jim
    Something you might want to check out is an old, but still valuable, photography rule called the Sunny 16 Rule. It is used for determining exposure and becomes very important, especially if you are adjusting any settings manually. It states that on a bright sunny day, the correct outside exposure for any subject at f/16 is the reciprocal of the ISO speed (well, it actually was the reciprocal of the film speed, as I said, an old rule). I use it all the time as I shoot mostly with manual settings, in fact I have a laminated 2 page chart with settings I carry around with me, I find it that useful.

    So on a normal sunny day with no shade your outside camera setting would be ISO 200, f/16 and 1/200ss. Your exposure should come out perfect. However when shooting in interiors, even if lit by standard home lighting, people don't realize how much darker it is. It will be between 7 (day) to 10 (night) full stops less light than a bright sunny day. So how can you use this rule to help you out?

    Assuming your interior is 7 full stops darker than outside, even with some window light, you would need a f/1.4 lens wide open to shoot at ISO 200. (Dropping from f/16 to f/1.4 is 7 stops). Since the 12-40 is a f/2.8 lens, you can only make up 5 of the 7 stops needed. By setting the aperture at f/2.8 the other 2 stops need to come from the ISO or aperture. Raising the ISO from 200 to 800 is the added 2 stops you need. Or you could shoot at 1/50ss instead of 1/200, but frankly even with the great IBIS the O-M1 has, especially with an active child, movement could be an issue and will be visible in some shots. Better to raise the ISO.

    If you really want to learn, I suggest you put your camera in full manual mode and set the ISO to 800, the ss to 1/200 and the aperture to 2.8. This should be a good base to start with for most daytime interior shots and limit camera movement. If you are still finding dark shots, you could add 1 more stop by going to ISO 1600 or dropping the ss from 1/200 to 1/100. If you get beyond 8 stops, you really should look at using an external flash or consider getting a faster lens like the 25 f/1.4 or 45mm f/1.8. One great thing about the E-M1, you can pull raw shots by at least 2 stops either way, so don't discard raw shots that may appear under or over exposed.

    The key item in the Sunny 16 rule is the fact that each stop up or down in 1 variable in the exposure triangle represents a doubling or halving of the amount of light required to make a correct exposure. So if at ISO 800, 1/200ss and f/2.8 you are getting blurry photos, raise the ISO to 1,600 (doubling) and increase the shutter speed to 1/400sec (halving), it is the exact same exposure. Or, this is where the f/2 or faster lens would help because you would not need to raise the ISO and maybe the noise, simply open the aperture by a stop. (And that is why I recommended you get the 75mm f/1.8 instead of the 40-150mm f/2.8 in your other thread. Or at least the 45mm f/1.8, it is fantastic for portraits.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2015
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Ehoeft

    Ehoeft Mu-43 Rookie

    10
    Mar 10, 2015

    Thank you for the time to explain that all to me. It really puts things into perspective. Sorry to all that had to deal with my lack of knowledge. With that said, and along with my other post I should be looking at a faster lens. Idk what it is but I just feel the 45 1.8 is lacking. The only thing that scares me about the 75 1.8 is the focal length and the only other option is the 42.5 1.4 panasonic. Wish olympus made that same lens in a pro series. I'm the type of guy that wants the same brand lenses as the camera so I can't see myself getting the 42.5 or the 35-100 as stated in my other post.
    Looks like I got some more reading to do. Thank you all for taking the time to help me out. Lots of good info here for me to look into
     
  20. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Or get more light into the room.

    Barry