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Shutter Shock with E-M10

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by MadMarco, Nov 21, 2014.

  1. MadMarco

    MadMarco Mu-43 Veteran

    298
    Oct 30, 2014
    Guildford, England
    I've been investigating the effects of shutter-shock on my E-M10.

    I was a little disappointed with the sharpness of the photos that I was taking in some situations. Initially I thought that it was the stock Olympus 14-42 EZ lens which let's face it isn't the sharpest tool in the box, but for the size and convenience you shouldn't really expect much more. My Olympus 14-150 should have been a much better prospect as I remember it produced very nice results on my old E-PL2, but there was still something not quite right.

    After a bit of digging around I started reading about shutter shock and the Anti-shock 0 second setting (Menu Settings E, Anti-Shock - 0sec). To get this to activate you need to go into Sequential Shooting and select Single Zero Shock (with the diamond). The difference in some cases can be considerable as you can see from the test photos below. The 0sec setting does not work in either high or low sequential shooting modes which is a shame.

    The biggest difference is when shooting at longer focal lengths and slower shutter speeds. All photos were taken hand-held, but well braced. Shutter priority 1/60s, ISO200, crops from raw without any further processing. Please note that I didn't kill my "model", it's just that time of year in the UK when the wasps have just had enough of life.

    Olympus 14-42 @42mm Normal
    E-M10_14-42_Normal.
    Olympus 14-42 @42mm 0Shock
    E-M10_14-42_0Shock.
    Olympus 14-150 @150mm Normal
    E-M10_14-150_Normal.
    Olympus 14-150 @150mm 0Shock
    E-M10_14-150_0Shock.
    Olympus 12-40 @40mm Normal
    E-M10_12-40_Normal.
    Olympus 12-40 @40mm 0Shock
    E-M10_12-40_0Shock.
     
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  2. RMills

    RMills Mu-43 Regular

    94
    Nov 7, 2014
    Shooting the equivalent of 80mm @ 1/60th could also be a problem. I do see the difference though!
     
  3. MadMarco

    MadMarco Mu-43 Veteran

    298
    Oct 30, 2014
    Guildford, England
    Higher shutter speed definitely helps, although I was surprised how easy it was to provoke. The 14-150 at 300mm equivalent shows it all the way up to at least 1/320s without 0sec anti-shock switched on. I didn't even have to work hard to get the examples above, the output was consistently as shown.

    I was trying to photograph a squirrel (not really moving much) at 300mm, 1/320s when I first clocked that something was definitely going on. I couldn't get any definition in the shot despite multiple attempts; in body IS should be able to easily deal with any camera shake (I'm sure that my technique isn't THAT bad!!!).
     
  4. MajorMagee

    MajorMagee Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 24, 2011
    Dayton, OH
    Oh, I though he may have died from shock...
     
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  5. peter124

    peter124 Mu-43 Regular

    So far I've kept out of discussions on shutter shock, but this image may be of interest:

    14-150_shutter_shock.

    This shows 14-150 shutter shock with the E-M5. Left hand picture is at 1/100 sec, right hand at 1/25 sec. Note that scope timebase was changed to make each capture about the same length on the screen. Each vertical square is about 30 pixels.

    Clearly, there will be significant image degradation at 1/100 sec, less so at 1/25. If you go to 1/400 or faster, shutter shock is less noticeable. FWIW, the E-M5 anti-shock setting didn't seem to make much difference. But it looks as if the zero-shock feature on the later cameras does work pretty well.

    I have tested other lenses. In general, the primes fare quite well, certainly better than the larger zooms. The P 12-32 is quite good also.
     
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  6. Brian Beezley

    Brian Beezley Mu-43 All-Pro

    Thanks for the fascinating scope experiment. It took me a while to understand that while the vertical trace wobble is the same amplitude for both traces, it occupies a smaller portion of the right trace. So image degradation should be lower at that shutter speed.

    I just tried my E-PL2 + 40-150mm with my Tektronix 454B scope. I couldn't see any trace wobble. That puzzles me because occasionally I have noticed double images in the vertical direction. I assumed it was shutter shock. Perhaps it was a misbehaving IBIS, which I leave on all the time. I'll try again with a wider range of settings.

    Why does the lens choice alter the effects of shutter shock? Is it due to the shutter impulse moving glass elements in some lenses and not others? Or is it due to the way different lens masses affect the impulse propagating through the coupled system?

    Thanks again for the revealing experiment.

    Brian
     
  7. MadMarco

    MadMarco Mu-43 Veteran

    298
    Oct 30, 2014
    Guildford, England
    Boom boom!!!
     
  8. MadMarco

    MadMarco Mu-43 Veteran

    298
    Oct 30, 2014
    Guildford, England
    Hi Peter, interesting test! What was the focal length of the 14-150 when you too these pictures? Do you feel that focal length is related to the issue or is mainly particular lenses that seem to suffer more than others?

    I need to do a bit more experimentation to figure out when 0sec shock is necessary, but I think that you are right that the E-M10 implementation of this feature seems to be very effective.
     
  9. DennisC

    DennisC Mu-43 Regular

    76
    Jan 24, 2010
    Cheshire UK
    The latest firmware definitely helped by introducing the 0 setting. An experimenter over at DPReview showed using an Oscilloscope that setting Release Lag Time to short added to sharpness.

    Confusing with shutter shock is another effect that I've seen occasionally with bright edges where a fuzzieness appears.
    I remember similar effects with the Sony A55 being blamed on the SLT's see through mirror but I'm not sure what's happening with my EM10 as the last shot to show the effect was at 1/400 sec ie faster than 1/320 so standard shutter..
    It doesn't happen often and only in very bright conditions but it's something I hadn't expected.
     
  10. peter124

    peter124 Mu-43 Regular

    Focal length was 33mm for all the above captures. I also did some tests at 150mm and at 14mm, and the 'wobbles' were of the same order. However, I will say that when taking actual photos I get more unexpected blurring at the longer focal lengths, so possibly more tests would show this.

    The main reason I set up these experiments was to satisfy myself that shutter shock is real. As Dennis mentioned, there is a long thread on DPR that describes the scope technique. (And, I might add, done with more care and patience than I was able to muster!)

    I am convinced that some lenses are more susceptible than others. Just for interest, here are my results with the P12-32:

    12-22-32.

    Shutter speed was 1/25 in all cases. And each vertical division is about 25 pixels.

    Seems better than the 14-150, and in real life I've never seen the unexpected blurring that happens from time to time on the 14-150 and other lenses.

    One final commment: none of the 'wobbles' shown in these captures would have caused the double-image effect. For that, you would need to see a step in the trace, as the image moves from one position on the sensor to another. All the 'wobbles' would do is cause blurring, as evident from the OP's dead wasp shots.

    I'm not saying that a step can't happen, just that it didn't occur during my tests,
     
  11. gobeatty

    gobeatty Mu-43 Regular

    82
    Sep 15, 2014
    Mr naive here. I have an EM10 and wonder why, when all viewfinder viewing is from the sensor, why there is a shutter at all. Can't the software control the "shutter speed" of capture without a mechanical shutter? My phone camera doesn't have a mechanical shutter as far as I know. Apologies if this basic question is off topic.
     
  12. wjiang

    wjiang Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Many cameras can and do indeed have the option use an electronic shutter like a cell phone (e.g. GX7, GM1). Most of theses sensors cannot instantly capture the whole scene, however, and what you end up with is various problems like rolling shutter for fast movement, or flicker problems with artificial lighting.
     
  13. Plumballs

    Plumballs Mu-43 Veteran

    216
    Jul 11, 2014
    Whitchurch, Hampshire
    Phil
    Thanks guys,

    I have really appreciated this thread. Before this I did not understand the subject but now feel as though i do have some grasp of the subject.

    I did have trouble looking for around 20 minutes finding the Sequential Shooting and select Single Zero Shock (with the diamond) but I put that down to my own inexperience. Anybody else struggling its shooting menu 2, top of the shop where you choose timer or continuous shooting and the very bottom option on page 2 marked as a single square with the diamond next to it.

    Is this setting detrimental in any way to leave it in all the time, or should i only use it when i need the slower speeds?

    Thank you again.

    Phil
     
  14. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    The E-M10 has shutter shock issues? I've never seen it, but then again I'm not looking for it! :eek:
     
  15. Plumballs

    Plumballs Mu-43 Veteran

    216
    Jul 11, 2014
    Whitchurch, Hampshire
    Phil
    Hi Jonathan F/2,

    I agree as I did not notice it either, possibly happy in my ignorance?

    There is no getting away from the images as even I can see the difference. Before I would have been happy with the fuzzier images thinking it was the limitations of my kit lens but now I'm seeing a way I can possibly improve the sharpness without spending more money. It’s got to be worth trying.

    Phil
     
  16. SojiOkita

    SojiOkita Mu-43 Top Veteran

    614
    Feb 23, 2014
    France
    I made a post about my shutter shock issues with the E-M10.
    https://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?t=63469

    It happens with 100-150 mm focal length, and it disappear when using the "0s antishock" but only for shutter speeds longer than 1/320s.
    What's funny is that at 150 mm, 1/400s pictures are blurry, and 1/320s pictures are sharp, because the antishock only works from 1/320s...

    I never had any problems on focal lenghts wider than 45 mm.
     
  17. Jonathan F/2

    Jonathan F/2 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 10, 2011
    Los Angeles, CA
    That's really funny because when I shoot with long lenses I always set it to 1/320th as my max shutter speed. Maybe that's why I don't see shutter shock issues. :biggrin:

    Then again shutter shock issues and crappy IBIS on my E-PM2 makes my E-M10 look way more stable in comparison. :wink:
     
  18. MadMarco

    MadMarco Mu-43 Veteran

    298
    Oct 30, 2014
    Guildford, England
    Hi Phil,

    I haven't seen any issues so far from enabling Anti-shock 0sec and it is now in my default settings. Since enabling this I'm getting much more consistent images from the E-M10, there seems to be noticeably fewer "misses".
     
  19. MadMarco

    MadMarco Mu-43 Veteran

    298
    Oct 30, 2014
    Guildford, England
    Hi Jonathan,

    The shutter shock issue seems a fairly complex one with several factors coming into play. Some lenses seem to be much more prone to it than others and longer focal lengths can exaggerate the issue.

    So far I'd say that the issue is slight on my 12-40, a little worse on my 14-42 and worse by far on my 14-150. What I can say is that the 0 second Anti-Shock works very well for my E-M10, eliminating all traces of shutter shock on all lenses and condition that I have tried so far. So far there don't seem to be any down-sides to enabling this feature so I'm keeping if switched on as my default from now on.
     
  20. kirschm

    kirschm Mu-43 Regular

    82
    May 4, 2014
    Germany
    Hi Since, we often mention in this thread the Oly14-150, IBIS and 0-Sec Antishock... here's my experience with the PL7 (3-Axis Stabilization like the EM10)... handheld... 150mm

    http://www.systemkamera-forum.de/topic/109766-pl7-und-die-1160-sekunde-mit-oly14-150/

    At least in this particular test I had repeatedly problems (Shutter Shock I would guess) at 1/160.. from 9 shoots only 2 were sharp. Although my 'posted table' is in German, it's simple to understand: Only when I say 'OK' then the picture was really sharp... 'fast OK' means 'almost OK'... 'grenzwertig' means slightly worse than 'almost OK'... and 'Ausschuss' means for me 'unusable/blurred'...

    PL7, Oly14-150mm@150mm, IBIS auto, 0-Sek Antishock, je 3 Aufnahmen
    1/30: 1x fast OK (Jammern auf hohem Niveau), 1x grenzwertig, 1x Ausschuss
    1/40: 1x OK, 2x Ausschuss
    1/50: 1x OK, 2x fast OK (Jammern auf hohem Niveau)
    1/60: 1x OK, 1x fast OK (Jammern auf hohem Niveau), 1x grenzwertig
    1/80: 1x OK, 1x fast OK (Jammern auf hohem Niveau), 1x etwas grenzwertig
    1/100: 3x OK
    1/125: 3x OK
    1/160: 1x OK, 2x Ausschuss, Wiederholung mit weiteren 6 Aufnahmen: 1x OK, 5x nicht überzeugend
    1/200: 3x OK
    1/250: 3x OK
     
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