Shutter Shock still a problem on E-P5

FlyPenFly

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This was at 1/125 with IBIS on and I *think* lens OIS off.

I also saw this double imaging problem at 1/250.

Does this reflect other people's experience with shutter shock?

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pdk42

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I sometimes get blurting like this, usually at around 1/180th sec - but the odd thing is that when I go looking for it and doing controlled tests, I can't reliably reproduce it. It's an irritation for sure, although for me it's infrequent enough not to be a deal breaker.
 

FlyPenFly

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From what I've been reading, it seems zoom lenses are more vulnerable to it?

Some people are also reporting that shorter lag times on the shutter setting might help but that might just be wishful thinking.
 

pdk42

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From what I've been reading, it seems zoom lenses are more vulnerable to it?

Some people are also reporting that shorter lag times on the shutter setting might help but that might just be wishful thinking.
It's this latter point that set me doing controlled testing - that way I could see if "short lag" or "ant shock delay" would ameliorate it. However, I can't reliably replicate it.
 

D7k1

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It's this latter point that set me doing controlled testing - that way I could see if "short lag" or "ant shock delay" would ameliorate it. However, I can't reliably replicate it.
Right now I'm only using the 14-42 "L" kit and the 40-150. I did a series of tests (with and without IBIS) to compare the EP5 against my D7000 and a Sigma 18-250 OS Macro travel lens (The 7100 would have not been a fair test). I was using a VF2 and in 30 or so images between 1/80 and 1/200 I did not experience it. However, later when I was not using as good of technique I got a few blurry images. I'm convinced it was me (pilot error in the way I pushed the shutter button) and not the camera. I've done more on a tripod with IBIS off when birding using my EP5 on either my 80-200 or my 300mm (with a tc1.7 = 1,000mm) and have not seen it either. You'd think I 'd see it a lot with the "L" 14-42, but I always check my images at 100% as I submit many of them to the various micro stock agencies. I'm getting a couple of primes in the next month or two and will test them when I get them. At this point I'm not concerned as if it is happening on my camera it is very seldom.
 

Yohan Pamudji

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Haven't used an E-P5, but I've tried 2 E-M1s with shutter shock. My theory is that both the E-P5 and E-M1 have shutter shock at similar shutter speeds because of the 1/8000 max shutter speed, so assuming that's true hopefully my experience will help you.

Roughly 1/80 to 1/250 is the danger zone. By 1/320 it clears up considerably and it's completely clear by 1/400. I could reproduce it reliably on all lenses I tested with--17mm f/1.8, 45mm f/1.8, 75mm f/1.8, 12-40mm f/2.8. It was more obviously visible in portrait orientation with the blur going left and right consistent with the direction of the shutter movement in portrait.

Release lag short showed some improvement, as did 1/8 second antishock. Neither completely eliminated the problem.

The only thing I could do to completely eliminate the problem was attach a heavy 3-way tripod head to the bottom of the camera. I still handheld it the same way I did when performing my previous tests and the blur was completely gone. It even showed improvement at 1/400 shutter speed which I previously thought was completely clear of shock. Turns out the effect was just very, very subtle at that speed, and the tripod head cleared up what little shock there was before.

Why the heavy tripod head worked I have no idea. Even shooting at arms length (most of my prior testing was with EVF to eye), which after a while made my arms shake from the effort of holding up the camera + tripod head, I was able to get crisp shots.
 

FlyPenFly

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My guess would be the tripod head dampened the resonation frequency. I will say, I don't really this much on my em1 but I mostly shoot primes on that body.
 

rbelyell

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i have the same problem on my epl5 and its the sole reason i havent bought the ep5. might i suggest two things: first theres an antishock or some such thing setting that i believe i have set to 1/8th of a second; second, the truth is for most shots across the normal FL setting at shutter speeds equal to or greater than the FL, one doesnt need IS at all, just reasonably good technique. yes that means the IS feature doesnt work correctly, but no offense to anyone, that should allow us all to rely on ourselves to be better at what we like to do vs ignoring time honored technique in favor of relying on the tool.

certainly at long FL, like 180+, theres only so much that can be done with technique, though it still does play a role. but if one is a birder etc, my suggestion is to either buy another camera or buy lenses with IS and turn off the cams IS.
 

krugorg

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That lens is supposed to be more prone to shutter shock. Not a big deal when using the GM1's electronic shutter, of course.
 

FlyPenFly

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i have the same problem on my epl5 and its the sole reason i havent bought the ep5. might i suggest two things: first theres an antishock or some such thing setting that i believe i have set to 1/8th of a second; second, the truth is for most shots across the normal FL setting at shutter speeds equal to or greater than the FL, one doesnt need IS at all, just reasonably good technique. yes that means the IS feature doesnt work correctly, but no offense to anyone, that should allow us all to rely on ourselves to be better at what we like to do vs ignoring time honored technique in favor of relying on the tool.

certainly at long FL, like 180+, theres only so much that can be done with technique, though it still does play a role. but if one is a birder etc, my suggestion is to either buy another camera or buy lenses with IS and turn off the cams IS.
I don't believe it's ibis, it's the shutter mechanism itself.
 

FlyPenFly

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That lens is supposed to be more prone to shutter shock. Not a big deal when using the GM1's electronic shutter, of course.
The gm1 uses a mechanical shutter to 1/500 then electronic shutter. Of course the electronic shutter has it's own set of problems including reduced image quality from loss in dynamic range.
 

rbelyell

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I don't believe it's ibis, it's the shutter mechanism itself.
my personal experience was adjusting the antishock setting while leaving on ibis did not correct the issue. however, when i turned off ibis, which is now my 99% setting, i never saw the problem again. we can debate this but in the end i guess what we see is somewhat subjective and so ultimately not definitive. what is definitive, and was my main point, is that ibis is not necessary in many if not the overwhelming amount of situations. it is certainly not necessary with the OT lens under any kind of normal lighting and not at the OT shutter speed. as photographers we should be more concerned with understanding FL/shutter speed relationship to 'shaky' pix, and more concerned with learning proper technique. knowing both empowers the photographer, enables him to properly handle many situations, and will obviate the need for ibis much of the time.
 

FlyPenFly

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I agree that ibis can be problematic, I wish there was a way you can set a threshold for it like auto ISO, only turn on ibis for 1/25 and under or something like that.
 

rbelyell

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ibis is relatively easy to turn on and off, and situations where dangerously low shutter speeds can come into play should be easy to identify. and thats the point really. its that ibis was never intended to be a crutch for situations in which photographers can walk just fine. it was meant to go hand in glove with the 2x crop advantage of m4/3 to allow extreme tele users (180mm+) handholdability, and to help mask the early on higher iso noise issues of the platform. it was not intended for wide to short tele work in decent light, as for a photographer that is a solution in search of a problem.
 

FlyPenFly

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I can see IBIS Auto mode being expanded to turn off for say ISO200-400 within 0-50mm (35mm effective) at more than 1/60.
 

Yohan Pamudji

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my personal experience was adjusting the antishock setting while leaving on ibis did not correct the issue. however, when i turned off ibis, which is now my 99% setting, i never saw the problem again. we can debate this but in the end i guess what we see is somewhat subjective and so ultimately not definitive. what is definitive, and was my main point, is that ibis is not necessary in many if not the overwhelming amount of situations. it is certainly not necessary with the OT lens under any kind of normal lighting and not at the OT shutter speed. as photographers we should be more concerned with understanding FL/shutter speed relationship to 'shaky' pix, and more concerned with learning proper technique. knowing both empowers the photographer, enables him to properly handle many situations, and will obviate the need for ibis much of the time.
I wish I could say the same about turning off IBIS fixing the issue for me. I tried every permutation I could think of combining settings for IBIS, short lag, antishock, handholding technique (varying tightness of grip, EVF vs. rear screen), but nothing completely eliminated the problem on the E-M1s I tried except for the tripod head. Obviously handholding with a multi-pound tripod head attached all the time is a non-starter so I regrettably returned the cameras.

This difference in experience could be down to the fact that you're talking about an E-PL5 and we're talking about E-P5 and E-M1. The E-PL5 has a very different IBIS mechanism than the 5-way systems in the E-P5 and E-M1, thus it's understandable if turning IBIS off could produce different results for your case vs. ours. I believe there's something to be said for turning off IBIS when not needed on the older 2-axis IBIS systems like the E-PL5. But that wisdom doesn't seem to carry over to the newer 5-axis IBIS cameras.
 

taz98spin

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For those not educated about Shutter Shock, how do you tell the difference between a blurry image and Shutter Shock??

I'm still trying to learn all the ins and outs of my E-P5, and once in a while I have (what looks to me) a blurry image.
 

FlyPenFly

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You see a double effect that's a bit different than camera shake blur which looks more linear. Its generally on shutter speeds that are in the range of 1/60-1/250.
 

taz98spin

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You see a double effect that's a bit different than camera shake blur which looks more linear. Its generally on shutter speeds that are in the range of 1/60-1/250.
Thanks! I'm reading about it on DPR right now too.

Some person said he had 4 different E-P5s.. guess I'll test mine when I get home!
 
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