Should we open up Mu-43 to include subforums for other types of cameras?

Should we open up Mu-43 to include subforums for other types of cameras?

  • No, it should remain specifically a site for Micro Four Thirds users

  • Yes, we should change the name and make it a site for all brands and systems


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Amin Sabet

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I think a lot of the fears about non-civil multi-system trolling are rooted in experience of one particular website which I won't name. On more moderated sites, it doesn't happen. For example GetDPI is an all systems forum, has an active Micro 4/3 forum, and I have yet to ever see any trolling or recurring equivalence arguments happening there.
 

WT21

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I think a lot of the fears about non-civil multi-system trolling are rooted in experience of one particular website which I won't name. On more moderated sites, it doesn't happen. For example GetDPI is an all systems forum, has an active Micro 4/3 forum, and I have yet to ever see any trolling or recurring equivalence arguments happening there.
The m43 subforum on GETDPI is not that active. Same for Fred Miranda. (see screen shots below). I only know of DPR and here as being very active m43 sites. And we know what most of the activity on DPR is about, lol.

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Egregius V

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Well, this community is already not especially gear-oriented, IMO - and even where it is, it's still more about photo-taking and practical use than about physics and theory and speculation (which seem especially conducive to one-upmanship). I think the technology and structure of this forum, the leadership, and the established community all make a difference. Even if this site changes, it's not going to be the same as other sites. I'd like to think that people bring the negativity in and will take it elsewhere when it is actively discouraged. So if you're thinking of leaving on principle if the site changes, please reconsider - we're better with you!
 

archaeopteryx

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I think a lot of the fears about non-civil multi-system trolling are rooted in experience of one particular website which I won't name.
Pretty sure I don't go to that website except to skim through the occasional search hit to see if there's a useful post among the noise when I'm researching something. ;) Here, I've a simply policy of not posting in format threads and, if paging through them, it's mostly for the :popcorm2: factor.

I am, however, concerned as to cultural shifting purely on the basis of present mu-43 activity. Of late, tone from format threads has spilled over into what seems to be a majority of the other discussion threads currently active (I haven't kept count to make a specific measurement, though) and there's two users in particular whose antagonistic interactions on format threads have provoked behavior borderline to the ToS in other threads. I've also noticed a number of moderator interventions and, as I'm not following threads closely, that means I'm not seeing the worst of the interactions.
I think the biggest advantage of opening this site to other formats is, it will expose the excellence of m43 system to the folks who firmly believe bigger sensor is better in every way.
Very interesting point. I agree with Amin's observation in this thread's predecessor that folks who seem to be defensive of m43 relative to larger formats tend to be the largest sources of negativity. As long as sensors come in different sizes the issue isn't ever going to go away. But if we could find a way to a culture which takes a more consistently positive approach that would be nice.

I kind of have some ideas as to how this might be done but wouldn't call them even half baked at the moment. As a general observation, though, it seems to me a challenge every photography forum has to some degree is balancing desire for one particular tool to be the pretty much the best in everything against realities which preclude that.

EDIT: Wording of one sentence adjusted for clarity per Amin's remarks below.
 
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Ulfric M Douglas

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The disadvantage is that those who only shoot Sony, Fuji, etc, know that they are on a MFT site. It doesn't put them on equal footing.
Can't you use forum software to fiddle the URLs which appear to fool everyone into thinking they are the "main" forum, even if all systems exist in a sub-forum of your main site?

Something like making it appear thus ;

- mu-Cameras
-------- mu-Canon
-------- mu-Nikon
------- - mu-Sony
-------- mu-43rds
-------- mu-Fuji
-------- mu-Phones

Edit: idiotic forum removed all my careful leading spaces so the layout got fudged up, I shall add some dashes for the moronic computer to do what I want.
 

Ulfric M Douglas

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The m43 subforum on GETDPI is not that active.
I love GetDPI and go there to find out what real working large-sensor folk do with expensive stuff, there are some really careful thinkers and good information.
The m4/3rds section of that site reflects that and gives a good slant on the subject.
 

PakkyT

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Truth is that gear attracts more chat than the craft. Sad but true.
Well there is nothing wrong with that on a system specific site. We come here for help and advice on our specific system which can be anything like which lens has focus clutch, why is my camera flash no longer firing (I think I changed a setting), where in the menu system is {feature}, does the E-Mxxx have this or that feature, and which 3rd party flashes support m43 TTL. Mixed in with all that we have other general photography discussion and advice.

I am of the opinion that if I was only interested in general photography, there are a couple thousand sites, videos, blogs, etc. you can visit and seek advice. If you want m43 specific advice then your relevant sites drop considerably.


For example GetDPI is an all systems forum, has an active Micro 4/3 forum
But the problem with site like that is any specific system gets one little general purpose forum that has to cover every aspect of that system. Here it is nice that if I am in the mood to look into, for example, flash systems for my E-M1 there is a specific forum where I can go in and skimming down the list they are ALL about m43 flash and I don't have to try and pick out the 2 or 3 flash posts out of pages of hundreds of posts over the last month.


For these type of reasons I voted no, keep this site m43 specific with general photography and other systems the minority forums and posts.
 
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Bidkev

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I agree with Amin's observation in this thread's predecessor that folks who seem to have fear, uncertainty, and doubt over their choice of m43 relative to larger formats tend to be the largest sources of negativity.
^^^ THIS.

When I first came to the forum, I was jumped on from a great height by quite a few posters who disagreed with my questioning the ability of m43 to compare with larger sensors.

It is human nature to be averse to question openly one's own decisions, even when one has doubts. Add to that neanderthal "penis envy" in photography terms and there will always be a recipe for "rutting."

I was on a migration forum for 10 yrs and helped many new migrants on their arrival in Oz. Would it surprise you that quite a few staunch defenders of Australia (migrants) who caused constant uproar with their defence of Oz when detractors of Australia posted something anti Oz, later moved back to the UK, and proved to be amongst the most vociferous of those who attacked OZ? That's what many folk do, defend their own positions/choices, rarely question those choices in a positive manner, and retaliate against anyone who may dare raise doubts in their own mind. WTF were folk doing on a migration form anyway if they had settled into an idyllic lifestyle? UK or OZ? Some of them are still on that forum 10 yrs later after returning to the UK, still knocking Oz and with nothing positive to offer other than their own opinion and prejudices. They're not offering help in an altruistic manner IMHO, just still, after all these yrs, trying to defend their choices. Some of them even come back to OZ and then knock the UK. They're known as "ping pong poms" and will support whatever country they're in at the time and knock whatever country that they've left. Ring a few bells?

Aussies don't cull us "whinging poms" for nothing :)
 
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Cederic

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It's your site, you take it in the direction you choose. I wont criticise your choice.

I did vote no but that's mainly because I like communities to be smaller and focussed. Topics of interest aren't lost in amongst the noise of other discussions.
 

Holoholo55

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Boy, this is a tough question. I value the M43 specific chat, advice, photos, and banter on this site. It's the first camera site I check in the morning, and at least a couple more times a day. I check other photo sites far less frequently, especially the general camera ones like the one Amin didn't want to mention. I find the the general camera sites far less useful and this one far more.

I favor keeping the mu-43.com specificity because we are a niche group. There is the risk of being drowned in a sea of noise if it's opened too far. Yet, I sympathize with Amin's stated needs and burden. He has been doing a great job keeping this going and I just want to say Mahalo nui loa!

So, count me ambivalent, but willing to chance what Amin decides to do. :)
 

Amin Sabet

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I agree with Amin's observation in this thread's predecessor that folks who seem to have fear, uncertainty, and doubt over their choice of m43 relative to larger formats tend to be the largest sources of negativity.
I didn't make that observation, exactly. What I said was that in the history of this site, people being defensive about MFT (without any comment on my part about what drives the defensiveness) have required more moderator intervention than people who are trolling MFT.

People who want to troll MFT seem to know to stay away from this site.
 
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I enjoy using different gear. I've had olympus, Panasonic , canon, fuji ,sony and nikon. Im currently using fuji and sony but still enjoy participating in this forum.
I don't understand the fear of this becoming a trolling site. None of Admins other forums are that way. This site is the most argumentative.
 

WT21

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Another way to look at this.

No one needs yet another place to talk about Sony, Fuji, Canon or Nikon. Reviewers (professional and hobbyists), other websites, general tech sites (arstechnica, CNET), heck even publications like the Wall Street Journal regularly gush about Sony and sometimes Fuji and of course everyone will print about Canon or Nikon.

Only m43 gets constant prognostications about it's imminent demise (see Northrup's latest) if it gets talked about at all. For those of us who want to work with m43, who prefer to see what can be done with such a quality kit, and don't want to be reminded (constantly) that there are some trade-offs, it's nice to have a forum to come and see only m43 stuff, and talk about post-processing techniques for this smaller sensor, or compare notes on how/why Panasonic doesn't seem to repair their equipment well.

For those who have 2+ systems, why not just do that at Cameraderie. Why vote to remove from m43 users, the m43-dedicated site? I would challenge you all to, instead, drive up traffic at Cameraderie until the discussion is about folding m43 into THAT site. Run some ads on m43 for cameraderie -- like "want to talk more than just m43? Head over to Cameraderie" etc. Prove it's a viable site format. There is already a vehicle to test it, and it already has a URL. No hand-wringing or soul searching required.

If the real (unspoken) issue here is that Amin no longer wants to/has the time to maintain a dedicated m43 site along with others, than that's really his call. He doesn't need our opinion on that. In fact, if I was sitting around having a beer and talking dispassionately about maintaining a site for others, I'd say he's nuts to do it! But for those of us who are focused on m43, I wish others would stop insinuating that we are defensive or whatnot. Maybe we just don't want to talk about (yet again) Fuji or Sony or whatever else. I can go to admiring light, or DPR TV or anyone else and hear all about the other systems. There are few places to go and have camaraderie around m43 (see what I did there). /rant
 
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Carbonman

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I voted to keep the site for m43 but only because this is the premier site for the format. It's a niche that doesn't get well covered or supported anywhere else on the web. As long as the m43 format doesn't get buried under all the other brands and formats, I'm willing to go with the flow.
@Amin Sabet , I think the membership fee can be raised somewhat. I was a member of an audio site for many years and they charged $25/year. Their paid membership included access to a buy & sell forum and a couple of other non-audio type forums such as books & authors. Anyone could post and comment on the public forums as long as they registered as a non-paying member, just like here.
 
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Bushboy

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I am not interested in full frame equipment, I don't want to see the photos you've taken with it.
Completely not interested in Sony gear. Fuji cameras, not even.
M4/3 only. M4/3 lenses only.
If it's not Panasonic or Olympus I'm not interested....
 
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I'd restate what I said in the last thread but I don't think it would help.

I do want to thank the mods and admin for this corner of the net and hope you understand our fears of losing this little slice that we are content and happy in. I've only owned Panasonic and Olympus gear for the last 25 years and I've felt driven out of every other photo forum but here and Arstechnica.

I got tired of the constant comparisons elsewhere or the need to use search to find the threads that had some mention in them of the system I used. Here I can open up a sub forum about flash and be surprised if I click open a thread that isn't relevant. I fear that can't be the case in a general forum given how small the system is.
 
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