Should I upgrade my Em10 mark ii?

mmuhsin

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Malaysia
Hi Everyone, new here.

I've been using my Em10 mark ii for quite a while now and I just wondering if I should upgrade to
1) Em 1 mark ii
2) Em5 mark iii
3) Em10 mark iV

I'm not a pro so probably em1 mark ii is too much? em5 and 10 body are more convenient when traveling with kids.
One of the main reason is because sometimes I just feel the pics are quite noisy (probably because of my technical skills).
Is the jump from 16Mp to 20Mp worth it?
Some people suggest to just go for Apsc or full frame, But I'm in love with olympus system and lenses, I couldnt just let go :D

This is my photography website which I just setup during this lockdown :
http://mmuhsinstudio.wordpress.com/

feedback and comments are much appreciated :)

Thanks
 

demiro

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Welcome. Beautiful shots. Certainly no reason for you to leave Olympus behind, given that you like the system and are doing very well with it.

Should you upgrade your body? Easy to say yes or no to this one. You really have to evaluate what your struggling with and how you can best address that, considering lenses as well. You get hi-res mode with the new bodies, so that might be interesting for your landscape shots. The extra MPs with newer sensor make some difference. The community here will tell you "slight; almost imperceptible" to "significant". Make of that what you will.

This question often boils down to: Do you want to spend the money on a new toy for an incremental benefit? If you do then yes, you should upgrade! :)
 

RS86

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Riku
Hi Everyone, new here.

I've been using my Em10 mark ii for quite a while now and I just wondering if I should upgrade to
1) Em 1 mark ii
2) Em5 mark iii
3) Em10 mark iV

I'm not a pro so probably em1 mark ii is too much? em5 and 10 body are more convenient when traveling with kids.
One of the main reason is because sometimes I just feel the pics are quite noisy (probably because of my technical skills).
Is the jump from 16Mp to 20Mp worth it?
Some people suggest to just go for Apsc or full frame, But I'm in love with olympus system and lenses, I couldnt just let go :D

This is my photography website which I just setup during this lockdown :
http://mmuhsinstudio.wordpress.com/

feedback and comments are much appreciated :)

Thanks

Go for the E-M5 III if you need it. The jump in MP is not big difference (~12 % in print size), but this sensor has better low-light abilities and PDAF compared to your camera & the E-M10 IV (or GX9/PEN-F)

E-M1 II is the best option if you want better grip (and don't mind the size), battery life & some other things. Especially if you can find it cheap in the 2nd hand market.

But as you can see in my signature, I haven't opted for the PDAF sensors yet because S-AF is enough for me as a hobbyist compared to the cost. E-M10 II is one of the best bargains in the last decade and they downgraded the later models.

But as you have kids, you might want to try out the PDAF C-AF possibilities in tracking faces with autofocus. I think it could be a great upgrade.

Regarding Olympus lenses and cameras, I just have to agree. There is something special mostly, hard to quantify.
 
Last edited:

ac12

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For casual home use, you may miss the pop-up flash on the EM10. The EM1-mk2, and likely the mk3 does not have a pop-up flash.

IMHO, noise is a subject that needs more investigation.
Example1, if you are shooting in DIM light at ISO 12800, yes you will have noise. But that is a result of the shooting conditions, not so much the camera. If you shoot in sunlight, I doubt you will see any noise.​
Example2, if you crop DEEPLY into a pic, you will see what looks like noise. But that is only because you are cropping deeply into the pic.​
IMHO, for the average user, going from 16 to 20MP will not buy you much, if anything. To me, the bottom line is, just how big a print will you make?
20MP will give you more leeway to crop deeper, before you pixelate.
I use my 16MP EM1-mk1 side-by-side with my 20MP EM1-mk2.

Should you upgrade your camera?
  • Are you hitting a technical limit with the EM10-mk2?
    • Example1. I used a Nikon D70S. The D70 had a reputation for POOR high ISO image quality. But, to me, it was just fine.
    • Example2. The Nikon D70S had a max ISO of 1600. It was OK for me, as I wasn't shooting night or gym sports. When I started shooting night/gym sport, that 1600 ISO was so low that the camera was almost useless for that purpose. With the D7200 I would shoot up at ISO 6400 and 12800.
  • Is there a feature in any of the 3 cameras that you WANT/NEED?
    • Example1, I got the EM1-mk2, because the EVF of the mk1 did not cut it for shooting sports.
    • Example2, long ago, I got the Nikon D70S, because it has a "wired" remote function. I hated using the IR remote of the D70.
    • Example3. If you shoot fast moving kids, the PDAF might work better for you than the CDAF of the EM10-mk2.
Caution, using an EM1 and EM10 side by side might be confusing.
The basic controls are fine, but I heavily use the buttons on the left deck of the EM1, which the EM10 does not have. So very often, I am stumped while trying to remember how to do the same function on the EM10.
 

ex machina

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Hi Everyone, new here.

I've been using my Em10 mark ii for quite a while now and I just wondering if I should upgrade to
1) Em 1 mark ii
2) Em5 mark iii
3) Em10 mark iV

I'm not a pro so probably em1 mark ii is too much? em5 and 10 body are more convenient when traveling with kids.
One of the main reason is because sometimes I just feel the pics are quite noisy (probably because of my technical skills).
Is the jump from 16Mp to 20Mp worth it?
Some people suggest to just go for Apsc or full frame, But I'm in love with olympus system and lenses, I couldnt just let go :D

This is my photography website which I just setup during this lockdown :
http://mmuhsinstudio.wordpress.com/

feedback and comments are much appreciated :)

Thanks

Nice shots, I don't think you need to worry about your technical skills. Can you tell us more about your noise concern?

I've been holding off on upgrading because I haven't to date seen a significant leap in low-light/dynamic range performance, which is my main want in a new camera. I've been able to get by with longer exposures at lower ISO with the kind of photography I tend towards, but I am a bit jealous of friends with modern FF cameras that are leaving their tripods at home for many of the same shoots -- I tell myself I'm getting better DOF than these guys, and that's mostly correct, but still... Yet, like you, I'm uninterested in moving to larger cameras and lenses.
 
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I just upgraded from an EM10ii to an EM5iii and did a write up. If your kids are moving fast and you’re missing shots, the PDAF upgrade is amazing. Continuous autofocus for kids sports is a revelation coming from the EM10ii. I purchased the EM5iii specifically for PDAF and I have not been disappointed.

I frequently use a Peak Design Capture but will probably buy a grip to use on EM5iii for that because of the switch to a plastic body.
 
Joined
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Welcome to the site
I think for a genuine upgrade I would go for the EM5.3 for a small body or the EM1.3

To my way of looking at things the later EM10 series are missing too many features once you have passed the basic level.
The changes to the EM1.3 are worth the extra price if you can afford it.

From looking at your site and really good photos looks like you could benefit from the EM1 series
 

exakta

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Noise improvements in the newer models are minimal. I'd save my money and work on ways to reduce noise instead, which mainly requires figuring out how to shoot at lower ISOs.
 
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If you use the ecg-3 grip on the em10, and it is permanently on, then I would suggest the em1ii.
I went from an em10 to an em1ii and I found a noticeable improvement in handling and IQ. It is bigger and I missed the smaller size and bought an e-m5ii as well.

If you don't use a grip, and don't feel the need for it, then the em10iv or em5iii make more sense.
The em5iii is pretty much an em1ii in a smaller body.

Peter Forsgard's comparison of the 2
 
Joined
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You have a great portfolio - lovely, creative shots.
Unfortunately, a.degree of noise is one of the trade offs with smaller sensor cameras compared to FF and I don't think that upgrading to one of the newer bodies (even a 20mp one) will solve that issue.
So, some things you may wish to consider instead..use or upgrade to the fastest lenses possible (think primes) to keep the ISO as low as possible. Use a dedicated noise program such as Topaz.
If that still doesn't work, consider running 2 systems.. for everything but lowlight keep the EM10ii. It's great and I love my mk i ..I do a mixture of travel, street and family stuff and for that it's superb. However, for low light or night shooting for about the same money as an Olympus upgrade you could pick up an older used Sony A7 i or ii or and a prime or an older FF DSLR.
Hopefully helpful. Good luck with your decision.
 

ac12

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You have a great portfolio - lovely, creative shots.
Unfortunately, a.degree of noise is one of the trade offs with smaller sensor cameras compared to FF and I don't think that upgrading to one of the newer bodies (even a 20mp one) will solve that issue.
So, some things you may wish to consider instead..use or upgrade to the fastest lenses possible (think primes) to keep the ISO as low as possible. Use a dedicated noise program such as Topaz.
If that still doesn't work, consider running 2 systems.. for everything but lowlight keep the EM10ii. It's great and I love my mk i ..I do a mixture of travel, street and family stuff and for that it's superb. However, for low light or night shooting for about the same money as an Olympus upgrade you could pick up an older used Sony A7 i or ii or and a prime or an older FF DSLR.
Hopefully helpful. Good luck with your decision.

Agree
There is nothing wrong with running two systems. Taking advantage of each with it's own pros/cons.
Example while I am primarily m4/3, my sport field camera is a Nikon D7200 + 70-200/4.
 

Michael Meissner

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My usual hot-button issue is the viewfinder. I need to wear polarized sunglasses when I'm outdoors all of the time (due to migraines). The E-m10 mark I, E-m5 mark I/II, E-m1 mark I/II/III, and E-m1x all use a TFT LCD viewfinder, while the E-m10 mark II/III/IV, E-m5 mark III, and Pen-F all use an OLED viewfinder.

TFT LCD viewfinder advantages:
  • Faster refresh rate
  • IMHO, more color accurate compared to the picture recorded for 'normal' colors (OLED viewfinders IMHO tend to saturate the colors somewhat, which isn't recorded in the picture, and you may need to raise levels or saturate if you wanted the image you saw in the viewfinder)
  • Possibly longer lifetime than OLED (but you may have to use a camera for 8 hours/day for many months to see the issues)
  • May use slightly less power than OLED
OLED viewfinder advantages:
  • No distortion when polarized sunglasses are used (compared to either heavy distortion or being opaque on the TFT LCD viewfinders in landscape orientation)
  • True black
  • Somewhat wider angle of view, which may not be as important with a viewfinder as compared to a monitor
  • Some of the OLED viewfinders have a better eye relief than TFT LCD, which is better for eyeglass wearers
So for me, I trade being able to see the image in bright sun with my polarized sunglasses over being slightly super-saturated in terms of color rendition. Your E-m10 mark II has an OLED viewfinder (probably the same VF as in the E-m5 mark III). I had been shooting with the E-m5 mark I and then the E-m1 mark I for some time, and I got frustrated with the distortion when I needed to use the sunglasses. I bought a refurbished E-m10 mark II to use as the sun camera to complement the E-m1 mark I.

In this year, I upgraded to the E-m5 mark III. But shortly after getting the camera, the covid-19 lockdown started, and I haven't been doing much shooting.

While the 20MP sensor is perhaps a little better than the previous 16MP sensor in terms of noise, it may be a technique issue, and not a camera/sensor issue.

In addition, I would first look at what lenses you are using. Upgrading to a faster lens may be better than upgrading bodies. But like everything in life, there are trade offs that you have to consider.

I would say post one picture (full size) in a new thread that has the noise and we can discuss it. Don't post multiple pictures or an album, but post one picture that people can discuss. It might be solution is to upgrade your lens, upgrade your body, switch defaults when shooting, upgrading your post processing, etc.
 

mmuhsin

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Wow! Thanks for all the reply and feedback. it is very helpful for me to make decision.
I should have join this forum sooner

After thinking about all the advice. I've decided to still stick with my em10 mark ii, and spend my money on lenses. Just got a really cheap bargain on:
1) Olympus 75mm - Exploring portraiture. I heard it's one of the best lens olympus produced
2) Olympus 60mm macro - experimenting on macro photography

I think rather than worrying on pixels, I rather go out and have fun, get creative and expanding my skills on different kind of photography before I make the jump.
Probably I will upgrade in the future once I have really max out my em10 markii. (or once em5 mark iii price drop low)

And thanks for the suggestion of noise reduction and getting advice from the forum. I think I'll post some of my photos in other thread and learn how to improve them here.

Thanks again for all the inforamtion and suggestion!
 

Michael Meissner

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Wow! Thanks for all the reply and feedback. it is very helpful for me to make decision.
I should have join this forum sooner

After thinking about all the advice. I've decided to still stick with my em10 mark ii, and spend my money on lenses. Just got a really cheap bargain on:
1) Olympus 75mm - Exploring portraiture. I heard it's one of the best lens olympus produced
2) Olympus 60mm macro - experimenting on macro photography
I've put the 75mm into my various shopping carts several times, and then removed it. For me, I just don't do formal portraits where I have enough room between the photographer and the subject to warrant using the 75mm. For me, I generally want to do indoor, no flash shooting with fast primes.

In normal rooms, I find the 15-17mm range is the best. I bought the Panasonic-Leica 15mm f/1.7 lens used (from this forum) at about the same price as I could get a used/refurbished Olympus 17mm f/1.8, so I went with the PL-15 (normally the PL-15 is a little more $$ than the Olympus 17mm).

In the past, you could often times find the DJI 15mm lens made for one of their drones fairly cheap used, but the supply seems to have dried up. The conventional wisdom is Panasonic made the DJI lens, but there might be a different lens coating on it.

If you get a good copy, the Olympus 17mm f/1.8 appears to be a good lens, but it does seem to have a reputation for sample variation.

I bought the Sigma 16mm f/1.4 lens specifically for my steampunk camera, where I needed a splash proof fast lens, and the Sigma was just about the only solution in the 15-17mm range until you got to the Olympus 17mm f/1.2 pro lens. However, for normal indoor shooting, the fact that it is large and heavy kind of limits its appeal to me.

The 20mm f/1.7 Panasonic lens was my workhorse for indoor shooting for several years. However over time, I found that many of the rooms I was shooting in were small enough that the 20mm was too long (and hence the search for something in the 15-17mm range).

A lot of people like the two cheap 25mm lenses (Panasonic 25mm f/1.7, Olympus 25mm f/1.8). These lenses often go on sale. But like the 20mm, they tend to be a little long for the rooms that I shoot in. I did buy an Olympus 25mm f/1.8 lens mostly for completeness, but I rarely use it. Pre-covid, I would often photograph theatrical performances, and I find at times if I'm in the front rows, I would want to have the selection of lenses, based on the location of the performer. Though for stills, if you have a wider lens, you can often crop to focus in on the performer.

For those theatrical performances, I find the Olympus 45mm f/1.8 is often just the right focal length to capture a single performer from the audience.

I ran into a good deal on a used Olympus 12mm f/2.0 and bought it on the spur of the moment. However, for the places I typically want a fast prime (indoors), the 12mm is a little too wide, and it is one of the lenses I regret buying. If I were still able to shoot renaissance faires, it would be great if I'm in the front row of the audience to shoot stage shows with the full cast.

When I'm an official faire photographer, I alternate between photographing from the back if I can get the camera raised high enough to shoot over people's heads, and being on the front rows so I have less obstructions on the performers. When I'm a patron, I have to take what I can get, but I try not to be 'that' photographer and block the view of people behind me.

I had one camera snapshoter (I refuse to call him a photographer) that would routinely wander around the audience to get his shot, including standing in front of me as I was recording video on a fixed tripod. I wished I had a crossbow mounted on my camera's hot-shoe, but I suspect his hide was thick enough that I would have needed depleted uranium to penetrate (note, I was the official photographer in this case, he was just a patron). I did complain to the director about him, and she gave him a talking to.

Speaking of stage shows, you might or might not want to think about a lens to shoot your kids sports and stage shows. There it often times depends on how far away you can be to get the shots, and whether you are shooting from within the audience free hand, or off to the side on a tripod.

For macro shots, it depends on how much you want to get into do it. I bought an Olympus 60mm f/2.8 cheap used, but I find I'm not as drawn to it. I keep meaning to experiment with focus stacking with the 60mm, but I haven't done it so far.

On the E-m10 mark II, you don't have focus stacking (where the camera takes 8 shots and combines them in camera to make a combined JPG image to give you more depth of field), but you do have focus bracketing (where the camera takes multiple shots, varying the focal length slightly, and you combine them later in post processing). Note on the cameras that support focus stacking, only the pro and macro lenses are supported. For focusing bracketing, I believe any auto focus micro 4/3rds lens is supported:
 
Last edited:

mmuhsin

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Joined
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Location
Malaysia
I've put the 75mm into my various shopping carts several times, and then removed it. For me, I just don't do formal portraits where I have enough room between the photographer and the subject to warrant using the 75mm. For me, I generally want to do indoor, no flash shooting with fast primes.

In normal rooms, I find the 15-17mm range is the best. I bought the Panasonic-Leica 15mm f/1.7 lens used (from this forum) at about the same price as I could get a used/refurbished Olympus 17mm f/1.8, so I went with the PL-15 (normally the PL-15 is a little more $$ than the Olympus 17mm).

In the past, you could often times find the DJI 15mm lens made for one of their drones fairly cheap used, but the supply seems to have dried up. The conventional wisdom is Panasonic made the DJI lens, but there might be a different lens coating on it.

If you get a good copy, the Olympus 17mm f/1.8 appears to be a good lens, but it does seem to have a reputation for sample variation.

I bought the Sigma 16mm f/1.4 lens specifically for my steampunk camera, where I needed a splash proof fast lens, and the Sigma was just about the only solution in the 15-17mm range until you got to the Olympus 17mm f/1.2 pro lens. However, for normal indoor shooting, the fact that it is large and heavy kind of limits its appeal to me.

The 20mm f/1.7 Panasonic lens was my workhorse for indoor shooting for several years. However over time, I found that many of the rooms I was shooting in were small enough that the 20mm was too long (and hence the search for something in the 15-17mm range).

A lot of people like the two cheap 25mm lenses (Panasonic 25mm f/1.7, Olympus 25mm f/1.8). These lenses often go on sale. But like the 20mm, they tend to be a little long for the rooms that I shoot in. I did buy an Olympus 25mm f/1.8 lens mostly for completeness, but I rarely use it. Pre-covid, I would often photograph theatrical performances, and I find at times if I'm in the front rows, I would want to have the selection of lenses, based on the location of the performer. Though for stills, if you have a wider lens, you can often crop to focus in on the performer.

For those theatrical performances, I find the Olympus 45mm f/1.8 is often just the right focal length to capture a single performer from the audience.

I ran into a good deal on a used Olympus 12mm f/2.0 and bought it on the spur of the moment. However, for the places I typically want a fast prime (indoors), the 12mm is a little too wide, and it is one of the lenses I regret buying. If I were still able to shoot renaissance faires, it would be great if I'm in the front row of the audience to shoot stage shows with the full cast.

When I'm an official faire photographer, I alternate between photographing from the back if I can get the camera raised high enough to shoot over people's heads, and being on the front rows so I have less obstructions on the performers. When I'm a patron, I have to take what I can get, but I try not to be 'that' photographer and block the view of people behind me.

I had one camera snapshoter (I refuse to call him a photographer) that would routinely wander around the audience to get his shot, including standing in front of me as I was recording video on a fixed tripod. I wished I had a crossbow mounted on my camera's hot-shoe, but I suspect his hide was thick enough that I would have needed depleted uranium to penetrate (note, I was the official photographer in this case, he was just a patron). I did complain to the director about him, and she gave him a talking to.

Speaking of stage shows, you might or might not want to think about a lens to shoot your kids sports and stage shows. There it often times depends on how far away you can be to get the shots, and whether you are shooting from within the audience free hand, or off to the side on a tripod.

For macro shots, it depends on how much you want to get into do it. I bought an Olympus 60mm f/2.8 cheap used, but I find I'm not as drawn to it. I keep meaning to experiment with focus stacking with the 60mm, but I haven't done it so far.

On the E-m10 mark II, you don't have focus stacking (where the camera takes 8 shots and combines them in camera to make a combined JPG image to give you more depth of field), but you do have focus bracketing (where the camera takes multiple shots, varying the focal length slightly, and you combine them later in post processing). Note on the cameras that support focus stacking, only the pro and macro lenses are supported. For focusing bracketing, I believe any auto focus micro 4/3rds lens is supported:

wow! Thats quite informative. yes I really tempted to buy sigma f1.4 series

I agree with you about the 15-17 range , but since i've just got oly 12-40mm I kinda have less use of all prime lens in that range. I just let go my pana 25mm and samyang 12mm f2. I think the 12-40 speed and IQ is good to replace the prime.

Thats why Im trying to get prime lens that is longer than 40mm. I had one vintage lens nikkor-Q 135mm 2.8. its a bloody good lens but its a tank and super heavy.

I agree, oly 45 f1.8 is a gem. I will keep it even if I got my oly 75mm.

Thanks for the info on Focus Bracketing, never know about that before. i Think I'll have a look at that
 

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