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Shooting RAW only?

Discussion in 'Olympus Cameras' started by barry13, Mar 17, 2015.

  1. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Hi,

    I'll be taking my E-M1 on a 3-week trip to Europe soon, and am worried about running out of storage (both primary on SD cards (256gb total) and secondary/backup on a Netbook's ~200GB HDD). (I like to shoot a lot of street photos.)
    I'm thinking of shooting RAW only to save a significant amount of storage space.

    What would I lose if I shoot RAW ONLY? (no JPEGs)

    1. if I want a single JPEG (for the iPad or whatever), I can still generate one in-camera, right?
    I won't be doing much social media stuff, but my wife might want to once in a while.

    2. Do the mobile (android/ios) apps let you make a JPEG if you only shoot RAW?

    3. when I get home, can I batch-convert all the ORFs to JPEG with Oly Viewer?
    I'm expecting to have 10k+ photos; can Oly Viewer handle that?

    I usually use RawTherapee, but for reviewing the images, the 'ooc' Oly versions would be preferred.

    I know I can view (or extract) the embedded JPEGs in the ORFs, but they are lower resolution and I like to pixel-peep.

    Thanks,
    Barry
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  2. bassman

    bassman Mu-43 Top Veteran

    678
    Apr 22, 2013
    New Jersey
    Scott
    AFAIK, you can only get the embedded Jorge if you shoot Raw. Why not Raw + JPEG Small? They can't be too big. Or for a few bucks get an external rotating drive for the netbook.
     
  3. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    @bassman@bassman, Hi...
    Are you saying you don't get a JPEG preview in the ORF if you don't shoot RAW+JPEG?

    I'm not sure what JPEG-small would give me (other than potential social-media use); I'd still want to batch-convert the ORFs to hi-res JPEG when I get home.

    My experience with external USB HDDs is that they are terribly unreliable; when you need them to work they won't spin up due to insufficient power on the USB plug, and I don't want to carry a USB hub also...
    Furthermore, I'd like to have 2 copies, so SD cards + HD, and I'd rather not keep spending money on media if I don't have to.

    Thanks,
    Barry
     
  4. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    I did this this summer, just to save space. I have 1200 files adding up to 16GB. I'm sure that you know that the saving is not very much.

    With E-M10 you can generate jpegs, give it a try I found the process a little confusing. The generated jpegs have a different filename and "position" from the RAW, minor annoyance.
    With Linux (Mint Cinnamon) the file browser does not display the small picture from the ORF file. So when you plug the SD card into the netbook it can be hard to find the right picture. Not a big problem when using any decent image viewer.

    Yes, OV3 can do batch conversion. I never did more then 700, I think it should be able to handle much more, there is a batch queue, etc.

    If you review the picture after the shot I'm not sure if the camera "develops" the raw on the fly or if you can review the low-res embedded jpeg only.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    On the E-M1, RAW-only will save over 50% compared to RAW + SHF-JPEGs. I've been trying SHN (or whatever it's called) JPEGs lately; they are considerably smaller but there's a noticeable loss in detail and posterization or other artifacts on bird feathers, etc., making them fairly pointless; I often end up having to open the ORF to see if the image is sharp.

    Thanks; I will try both. Need to figure out how to get Oly Viewer not to store anything on my C: drive first.

    I've got Fedora on the Netbook; I usually use gthumb when I'm on Linux and I don't think it supports ORFs (installing DCRAW might help gthumb).
    On Windows, I use XnView-MP, which should work on Linux; will have to try it.

    I'm assuming it's the preview JPEG (which is fairly high-res on the E-M1, but is not as high as SHF/SHN JPEGs).

    Thanks!
    Barry
     
  6. Klorenzo

    Klorenzo Mu-43 All-Pro

    Mar 10, 2014
    Lorenzo
    I use the SF? (the one below the highest quality) setting for jpegs and the size is about 1/3 of the ORF file, so the saving is close to 25%. If I want higher quality I develop the RAW file.
    I like the @bassman@bassman proposal of small jpegs.
     
  7. Phocal

    Phocal Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jan 3, 2014
    I am confused..............what do you need/want the jpg's for? For the life of me I can not see why you would want high resolution jpg's and RAW, not like the sooc jpg's are super good like the Fuji's).
     
  8. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    Bottom line: TIME

    More time processing the RAW files and creating JPG files.
    If you are comfortable processing RAW files, you'll actually benefit from not having to deal with as much low ISO noise and posterization in sky images. I've noticed that I can get cleaner JPG from RAW via Lightroom for those instances where a blue sky is in my shots versus the in camera JPG engine.
     
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  9. gryphon1911

    gryphon1911 Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Mar 13, 2014
    Central Ohio, USA
    Andrew
    Another approach might be this. Unless you run into a tricky lighting situation or know of an issue with the shot when taken via JPG, shoot JPG most of the time and RAW only when you need to shoot it.
    My broken record just came on...."use the right tool for the job". :D
     
  10. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    10,000 images? Really? What are you going to do with all of them?

    According to the E-M1 manual, a lossless RAW is 17MB and a 5MP JPEG at lowest compression is 3.2MB. So RAW + 5MP JPEG would be 20MB per image vs 17MB per image for RAW only. That's only a 17% increase in space requirements and saves you a lot of work.

    So with a goal of 10,000 images, either 7x32GB cards or 4x64GB cards should give you enough capacity.


    I'd be more inclined to cull as you go by deleting judiciously in camera and try to keep that number down around 1000-1500 tops. But that's just me. Just the thought of 10,000 images to process and sort for one vacation makes me want to leave my camera home.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. mcasan

    mcasan Mu-43 All-Pro

    Feb 26, 2014
    Atlanta
    The wife and I only shoot raw as we have no need to immediately send a jpg to an editor or any social media. We carry several 128GB SD cards to make sure we never run out of temp storage when shooting wildlife all day long. In the evening we cull and only import the keepers into LR. The keepers go into a folder on the Macbook internal SSD. We have around 700GB of space on the SSDs for photo storage. Should that fill up during a very long trip, we use external 1TB SSDs (not drives that can crash). Once we are home and the edits are done, the keepers are moved to our library drives which are external RAID sets. Naturally the the MAcbooks and RAID drives are all backed up by Time Machine to another set of drives.

    Last time I looked, my LR library had over 40,000 images from years of photography. If we need to email an image to someone or submit one for publication, then we make a 8bit jpg....but not before.
     
    • Appreciate Appreciate x 1
  12. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    ^ That's basically what I do. I have a tablet and external HDD, which enables me to transfer my shots from the camera to the tablet and HDD. As I pointed out in another thread, if you need a quick JPG (of pretty good quality), use IJFR.
     
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  13. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Probably delete most of them on review :blush:

    The SHF JPEGs are ~9MB ea. The other JPEGs are lower res and/or have a lot of artifacts.

    I have 3x64GB and 2x32GB SD cards (and a couple small micro-SD cards). I'll probably be OK, but istm shooting RAW only would be more prudent in terms of space.
    Also, I only have about 200GB available on the netbook and I'd prefer to be able to back everything up.

    I did some culling in-camera on the trip last year to Asia as I thought I was going to run out of cards, but
    a. it was a pain (time consuming and uncomfortable (hand & eye strain))
    b. it used a lot of battery (and I ended up with all 3 batteries dead one day (in Beijing), so that is a real issue)
    c. it's hard to tell if an image is good on a tiny screen; I've had some winners that didn't look good on camera, so I'm glad I didn't delete them!

    I wound up with ~3,500 images at the end of the Asia trip (after some in-camera deletion); most of those were taken in a 4-5 day period... I've deleted ~1,000 (so far) on the computer.

    Thanks,
    Barry
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  14. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    I probably don't need JPEGs while in Europe, unless we decide to share a couple images (email, social media, ...); as long as I can create JPEGs in-camera from the RAWs or via the Mobile app, that would suffice.

    When I get home, I prefer to have SHF JPEGs for review; as long as OV3 can batch-convert the images (and not fill up my C: drive), I'll be OK.

    Thanks,
    Barry
     
  15. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Yes, the 3MB JPEGs I talked about are the SHF 5MP images, not 16MP. However, as I mentioned, that is plenty of resolution to quickly share photos. And you'll have the full RAW to fall back on for the smaller percentage (based on my keeper rate anyway) of shots worthy of being further edited and presented.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    Thanks Ray, that was the program I was trying to remember... I now see it runs on Windows, for some reason I thought it was MAC only.

    Does it extract the JPEG Preview from the RAW, or does it do some RAW processing?

    Barry
     
  17. barry13

    barry13 Super Moderator; Photon Wrangler

    Mar 7, 2014
    Southern California
    Barry
    I'm still not clear on the answer to this, or if the mobile apps work at all if you only shoot RAW; I guess I will try it at home.

    I understand why those of you using Lightroom only need to keep the ORFs, however I don't use Lightroom and my workflow works best if I have high-res JPEGs around. I'm hoping to eventually try switching to DarkTable (on Linux unless a Windows version appears) or maybe some other app.

    Right now I'm using XnView-MP, and running RawTherapee on the ORF when I want to do an edit.

    Thanks,
    Barry
     
  18. tkbslc

    tkbslc Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    You may want to test that JPEG preview extractor out first. I did that with my Canon files after a big trip and ended up with a bunch of highly compressed JPEGS with no EXIF data. IIRC, they were 2MB files vs the typical 8-9MB I get from processing a RAW myself.

    Plus side is that it takes like 2 minutes vs half an hour to batch a folder with hundreds of RAWs into JPEGs.


    P.S. Why use RAW Therapee when the Olympus program gives you the auto-corrections, etc?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. coffeecat

    coffeecat Mu-43 Top Veteran

    708
    Aug 4, 2012
    SW England
    Rob
    I only really shoot raw. The only jpeg conversion I do (in Lightroom) is the small subset I upload to Flickr, or to share with family and friends privately via social media. I only tend to post process the pictures I really like (which saves time). If I'm away on holiday and I want to share a picture via social media (admittedly rare) I use a portable wifi card reader (tiny thing which also gets used for other purposes), and then use my Android phone (or tablet) with "Raw Decoder Free" (from TS Systems) and Snapseed (also free). Pretty painless really. I realised after a while that I never used the ooc jpegs, so I just stopped creating them. I shoot both Panasonic and Olympus.

    Rob
     
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  20. OzRay

    OzRay Mu-43 Legend

    Jan 29, 2010
    South Gippsland, Australia
    Ray, not Oz
    It uses the embedded JPG.
     
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