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Shooting JPEG

Discussion in 'Image Processing' started by robcee, Aug 12, 2016.

  1. robcee

    robcee Mu-43 Veteran

    289
    Jan 10, 2016
    Toronto
    Rob Campbell
    A controversial topic around these parts, but Eric Kim posted a great essay on why you should shoot JPEGs. Not all the time, not for everything, but in the right circumstances, shooting JPEG out of camera can be a great experience.

    8 Reasons Why You Should Shoot in JPEG
     
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  2. ionian

    ionian Mu-43 Veteran

    394
    May 20, 2016
    Kent, UK
    Simon
    I have shot raw for years, but a couple of months ago my laptop bricked and since then I've been going with jpg and doing any tidying on the iPad. As Erik Kim says, I wouldn't do it in every circumstance - dedicated landscape shooting etc - but for everyday photos it's working well. I can take some pictures, have a coffee and get my images out there looking as I want them minutes after capture. Plus m43 lends itself well to jpg shooting as I find the in-camera engines work well, and the live histogram reduces the number of exposure errors.

    I'm not too proud to happily say I'm mainly shooting jpg now and I'm really enjoying the immediacy of it.
     
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  3. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    I take everything he writes with more than a grain of salt. Much of his website follows internet marketing hype formulas ("X things I learned from Y"), and I find most things he writes to be more sizzle than steak. He is just not my cup of tea.

    --Ken
     
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  4. panamike

    panamike Mu-43 Top Veteran

    995
    Jul 5, 2016
    Lincolnshire UK
    Been a raw shooter since i bought into Nikon with the launch of the D70.now have Panasonic m4/3 and was surprised at the jpegs,ime in the process now of trying mostly jpeg shooting and enjoying it.
     
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  5. robcee

    robcee Mu-43 Veteran

    289
    Jan 10, 2016
    Toronto
    Rob Campbell
    yeah, it's a different mind-set. And like him or not, I think this article articulates what I find satisfying about shooting jpeg when I choose to do it. Or using the JPEG engine in the Olympus camera to edit one of my RAW shots for sharing on my phone while out in the world. It's the immediacy, quality and finality of the images that is kind of refreshing, even if they don't qualify as "fine art" shots.
     
  6. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    I operate the same way. If I am on a tight deadline or just need to get a shot out, then I shoot a jpeg or create one in camera from the raw file. I agree that our cameras can produce great jpegs in the right circumstances (which is greater than some people would imagine), I just have an issue with him stating the obvious with no real value added. I think that is is reasonable to assume that raw shooters understand the nature of jpeg files and what they offer. If I wanted to encourage this group of shooters to "switch it up", I guess I would have provided some compelling reasons, and I just did not find his (obvious as they were) compelling or useful.

    --Ken
     
  7. bjurasz

    bjurasz Mu-43 Regular

    127
    Dec 10, 2014
    Cedar Park
    I used to shoot RAW all the time. I had developed an adjustment preset in Aperture that would work on +95% of the images I took and would apply that automatically upon import, and I liked the results much better than what my Canon dSLRs were giving me as in-camera JPGs. Add that Aperture made a RAW workflow so simple there was little downside. Since moving to Olympus I'm finding the in-camera JPGs to be much closer to what I want in the first place. And with Aperture's demise and Photo's lack of any batch processing a RAW-only workflow has become much harder for me. I'm glad I like the Oly JPGs better because of this.

    Having actually read the link though I'll tell you most of his arguments are pure garbage.

    My last bit of "wisdom" on this topic is that we are all shooting RAW. Every last one of us. Period. Some just choose to use the camera as the converter, while others use one on their computer. Once you realize this your entire mindset about RAW versus JPG changes.
     
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  8. PakkyT

    PakkyT Mu-43 Top Veteran

    764
    Jun 20, 2015
    New England
    Ya agreed. Nothing against shooting JPG. I too shoot RAW+JPG these days. But some of those justifications are just weak. For example...


    He states: "Secondly, I have found that it is always disappointing when I import RAW images into Lightroom, and see the images “revert” from the JPEG previews to the flat, no contrast look of the RAW image. "

    This is not an issue with shooting RAW but rather an issue with Lightroom in particular. Don't like your RAW processor? Try another.


    He states: "Fourthly, JPEG is easier to backup than RAW files."

    Ummm, no. A file is a file is a file. His example of using Google Photos is a red herring. So what, Google Photos will backup automatically a REDUCED SIZE version of your shots. I would assume he would still want a backup of his FULL sized versions? So he still has to back up and backing up those JPGs are no easier than RAW.


    He states: "Seventh, JPEG offers more creativity (by having fewer options)"

    I had to laugh at this one because then he offers ZERO examples of how having fewer options makes shooting JPG more creative. Not saying he is wrong, but he only complains that when working in post too many options causes him to over process his photos. Bad writing. This is like saying, 'I like Chevy cars because of these things I hate about Ford'. Great but what is it about Chevy you actually like???


    All that said, I don't find his choice to shoot JPG wrong. In fact, I would suggest he add a 9th one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with stating "Because I want to". No other reason, justification, or explanation needed. ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2016
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  9. Clint

    Clint Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 22, 2013
    San Diego area, CA
    Clint
    I have to disagree with more than what I could agree with - and to not repeat anything that has already been covered.

    Eric - "shooting JPEG is less stress. I’ve found that when shooting simple snapshots for family and other events, JPEG is always the way to go. It takes far too much time to post process tons of RAW photos, deal with color correction, skin tones, etc when it comes to simple photos to just share."

    Why would I want to share shots that are less than I'm capable of ? Especially with friends and family that are some of my best marketing!!!

    Eric - "you are more dependent on good compositions and emotion in images, rather than trying to post process the crap out of your photos to make them look “interesting”
    If you are spending more time to post process your photos to make them interesting - then you need to go back to square one. Composition, lighting, and content that creates a viewer emotion are the basics of photography.

    Eric - "there are some JPEG film simulations which look phenomenal"
    As long as you have the right camera, cause if you change cameras, or as soon as the camera quits working, or the manufacturer no longer includes the processing or changes it - You are SOL.

    Eric - "JPEG offers more creativity (by having fewer options). I’ve found that sometimes processing RAW files is stressful because there are too many options when it comes to post processing images."
    and
    "there is a wonderful sense of “finality” with a JPEG image."

    Guess what, you can post process a jpeg with all of the options that you have available in processing raw. And if you choose, on top of all of the other post processing you can colorize B&W images!
     
  10. agentlossing

    agentlossing Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Jun 26, 2013
    Andrew Lossing
    Whatever Erik Kim says, I pretty much do the opposite... Except when I've heard it before because he's lifted it from more experienced photographers. I really dislike the notion of someone who started from the get-go to make a living as a photographer without putting the requisite time or attention into the art and skill aspect of it, i.e. the whole thing. Kim is a university built photographer who can't stop talking because his paycheck depends on it.

    What were we talking about? Oh yeah, JPEG. Shoot in JPEG but don't you dare not also capture in RAW. I did the first for a while when I didn't own a version of RAW processing software which covered my then camera models, now that I can look back on those files with better software, however, I'm just sad that I don't have more opportunities with the files I have, since my photography has (IMO) improved since those days.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Mu-43 app
     
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  11. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    He is a creature of the internet age. If the internet did not exist, almost nobody would have heard of him. And while I will not quote P.T. Barnum, he does prove that if you are good at PR, then there is a market out there for almost anything.

    --Ken
     
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  12. fader

    fader Mu-43 Regular

    101
    Aug 20, 2016
    Brest, France
    Isaac
    The blog article admittedly seems a bit contrived; the flexibility is there so I suppose I don't see it as an either/or situation. I have two snappy 64gb cards and shoot RAW+JPEG. About half the time I find jpegs are pleasing enough but 5 minutes in PP yields a better result, even for the web. In a lot of instances, I forget to swap from "vivid" back to "natural" and find the colors and tone contrasts are all out of whack in the jpegs. About 60% of the time it gets it right for a nice process-free pop.
     
  13. Howi

    Howi Mu-43 Veteran

    208
    Feb 23, 2011
    Sheffield
    Howard
    Just another argument in the raw v jpg scenario. The 'get it right in camera' brigade think they are doing something the raw shooters aren't, or can't get to grips with post processing software so shoot jpg's so they don't have to.
    It's a free world, it's your choice, I do wonder how many jpg shooters have regrets that they do not have access to the raw file though!
    Tried shooting raw + jpg but found the jpg's a waste of time as I pp'd the raw anyway. I use lightroom but could never get on with Photoshop. I have tried all the other pp software out there and always come back to LR as it is so easy to use ( for me anyway), the others not being as intuitive ( again to me).
    I can pp a single raw in a few seconds using LR6 which has some very powerful features available at your fingertips. It may not be perfect but it does most of what I need to do quickly and easily.
     
  14. astrostl

    astrostl Mu-43 Veteran

    358
    Oct 4, 2014
    St. Louis, MO
    Justin Honold
    I shoot RAW in color, an JPEG in monotone (custom MySet with +1 contrast, +1 sharpness, green B&W filter). I enjoy the constraints of the latter, abd B&W JPEGs are still fine for basic exposure edits because of a higher tolerance for imperfections in the medium itself.
     
  15. Howi

    Howi Mu-43 Veteran

    208
    Feb 23, 2011
    Sheffield
    Howard
    Not saying you are wrong, but surely you could pp a better B/W image from the raw file?
     
  16. oldracer

    oldracer Mu-43 All-Pro

    Oct 1, 2010
    USA
    I shoot RAW+JPG and see no reason to do anything else. Having the JPGs, if nothing else, makes it easy to browse folders to review images or to look for a particular one. But I don't ever remember using a JPG of a photo that I really liked; they can always be improved from the RAW in post and most touch-up takes me only a minute or two.

    I have never heard of this Kim guy but when I read nonsense like "JPEG offers more creativity (by having fewer options) ... " I'm pretty sure I haven't been missing anything. By that logic I guess using an old cell phone camera with no options at all would be the height of creativity.

    To paraphrase an old aphorism: "Better to keep quiet and have others suspect that you have nothing useful to say than to speak up and prove it."
     
  17. astrostl

    astrostl Mu-43 Veteran

    358
    Oct 4, 2014
    St. Louis, MO
    Justin Honold
    Absolutely could, yes. What I like about the MySet/JPEG workflow is that I always see in B&W: EVF/LCD, chimping, and import. It's just different, and worse, for me to take something in as color and then selectively convert it. And since I mix B&W JPEG and color RAW shots in the same session, I can't put a blanket import filter on it to auto-convert. Plus resets in Lightroom would "reveal" the color. I really, strongly prefer never seeing it, and never having an ability to see it.
     
  18. Replytoken

    Replytoken Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 7, 2012
    Puget Sound
    Ken
    The sister of that is a saying that a former instructor of mine used to quote: "Empty buckets make the most noise". That might be appropriate with respect to the blog post under discussion.

    --Ken