Sharp 8K MFT camera announcement pending

pdk42

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I hope it works well as a stills camera and bests the current 20Mp offerings from Oly & Pany. If so, it might encourage one of them to built it into their next flagship model (assuming Oly do indeed build another camera).
 

BDR-529

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https://photorumors.com/2020/07/02/...t-lens-video-camera-should-be-announced-soon/

If memory serves, the Sharp sensor is 33MP. Curious how this sensor would work for stills if the camera is optimized for 8K.
Apparently this is not just a rumor any more. It is indeed listed in Sharps homepage. I can't speak any japanese but it's bullet number 6 of 7 in the lower set of images.

https://corporate.jp.sharp/brand/bfb/8k5g/products/

The most important piece of information is not the Sharp camera but the fact that a new >33Mpx MFT sensor exists which also means that rumours about Panny GH6 are at least technically correct. This doesn't mean that it will ever be released, though since everyones plans have changed after the COVID19 downturn in sales.

Quite respectfull camera magazines did report earlier that GH6 release was planned for May but is now postponed indefinitely. Maybe September or so but deliveries will start in 2021. Three variants were claimed to be under development: 8k video (most expensive), hybrid 4k (least expensive) and still oriented (in between).

Shaps claimed release price of $2800-$3700 for the pro 8k video camera is in line with what was expected from GH6. Entry level 4k GH6 should also launch well below $2k which is obvious anyway given the current street price of Panasonic S1. Panny is not trying to compete against their own FF lineup with MFT cameras.
 
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D7k1

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I will go for the stills version when released (starting to save now). The G9 is such a fine camera, that one with a sensor like this would be a dream camera. If they also release a Gx8 with the same sensor, I'd save for a year and get it also.
 

BDR-529

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I will go for the stills version when released (starting to save now). The G9 is such a fine camera, that one with a sensor like this would be a dream camera. If they also release a Gx8 with the same sensor, I'd save for a year and get it also.
I can easily see how Panasonic could differenciate "8k Pro video GH6" at very high price point and "hybrid 4k GH6" since the latter would be everything that GH5 has today and then some with 33MPx at, say, 1900€.

I do, however, have problems trying to imagine how this still image oriented camera could be different from the hybrid one. There is no such improvement potential in still images as there is between 8k and 4k video if they use the same sensor. Panasonic has invested so heavily in FF cameras that they can't release MFT cameras which cannibalize even S1 sales.

Only option is that the inexpensive 4k hybrid GH6 is still using 20MPx sensor with just some goodies over GH5 and the still oriented GH6 has 33MPx but no 8k video. Since the low light performance with 33Mpx MFT sensor is bound to be no better than current situation, FF would still have an advantage and they could co-exist.

Lets see if any of these are ever released in post-COVID19 and post Olympus world.
 
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D7k1

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Lets see if any of these are ever relaesed in post-COVID19 and post Olympus world.
The market for "real" video cameras (especially those with 1" or larger sensors is pretty small, but the cost is very expensive. I would think they might give the still camera 6K a video (like the G9 has now but with no sound). It's the lenses that give these types of cameras a market. It why you don't see Panasonic selling a 1" or a m43 sensor in their video cameras. It a niche that Panasonic has made it's own and will continue I think even if they go down only to 2 consumer bodies in the under $1K market and keep the $1800-3000 market to the same camera with just different software, every user of the m43 video gear is a potential customer in the PRO video division.
 
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apete

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That is a good news for m43 system.
Also, are we gonna get a new "Sharp cameras" forum? For the beginning... maybe "Sharp camera" without "s" ;)
 

BDR-529

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Sharp? I haven't heard much about them in years. What's next - a partnership with Motorola, Sankyo, and Zenith? ;) Oops - forgot Hitachi!
Sharp must be the largest (consumer)electonics manufacturer nobody has heard about lately. Outside Japan that is. Historically Sharp has not specialized in any single product line but made pretty much everything imaginable. Which might explain why they eventually made $4.5b loss and Foxconn bought them. Sharp is also now mostly owned by Foxconn, worlds largest EMS so they definitely have a lot of manufacturing muscle available

Interestingly Sharp is making both CCS and CMOS sensors but they are specialized in surveillance where low ligh performance is essential.
Official lineup includes sensors for up to 4k60p and 20Mpx so it's sounds logical that their 8k video camera could use Sharp sensor which just isn't released yet. In one earlier news it was mentioned that Sharp has developed a proprietary 33MPx 16:9 8k sensor for MFT mount. So ,,, does this mean it's not 4:3 sensor per se and designed for video only?

Release of 8k video camera is also logical because Sharp released worlds first 8k TV a couple of years ago and these were supposed to be the next hit during Tokyo 2020 olympics which then got cancelled. Nobody will buy 8k TVs unless there's plenty of 8k video to watch on them *) Enter relatively inexpensive 8k MFT camera ... and maybe also 8k sensor for other MFT manufacturers?

Sharp is not in any hurry now that Tokyo olympics got moved to 2021 but what about Panasonic? They were not ready for 2020 summer olympics because Panny claimed that their 8k video (not necessarily MFT?) would only be released by 2022 Beijing winter olympics. Now they could hit the 2021 Tokyo olympics instead

*) and they also must figure out where to get those non-human consumers who would by into the 8k ecosystem. Human eye just can't see any difference between 4k and 8k resolution in any TV that still fits inside a typical living room.
 
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RAH

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In one earlier news it was mentioned that Sharp has developed a proprietary 33MPx 16:9 8k sensor for MFT mount. So ,,, does this mean it's not 4:3 sensor per se and designed for video only?
I've joked in several posts in several threads that I'm expecting or waiting for news about an "E-M1IV with a 32MP sensor." Now, as you said about the 8k video, "enter" a 33MP sensor for m43. OK, my wallet is primed and ready for action!
 

BDR-529

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I've joked in several posts in several threads that I'm expecting or waiting for news about an "E-M1IV with a 32MP sensor." Now, as you said about the 8k video, "enter" a 33MP sensor for m43. OK, my wallet is primed and ready for action!
And here comes the bad news. 8k UHD has a ratio of 16:9 and 7680*4320 pixels
In other words that 16:9 8k video area alone requires 33,2MPx.

MTF has 4:3 ratio which is the same as 16:12 and therefore you need 12/9 more pixels vertically.
MFT sensor capable of uncropped 8k video must also have at least 7680*5760 pixels which translates into 44,2MPx

If Sharp has really created a proprietary 33Mpx sensor for 8k video only it might use MFT mount and lenses but this sensor can't really be used in MFT cameras.
Well, you can use it but it will only take 16:9 pictures so your marketing department might need to re-define this Micro Four Thirds thing into Micro Sixteen Ninths (?).

As far as video is concerned, both MFT and FF sensors have unused pixels above and below the usable area so Sharp might have left them out entirely in order to save cost.
 
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ralf-11

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The tech can be used to make sensors of any aspect ratio

OR... part of the sensor can be used as in the Panny LX100
 

pake

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And here comes the bad news. 8k UHD has a ratio of 16:9 and 7680*4320 pixels
In other words that 16:9 8k video area alone requires 33,2MPx.

MTF has 4:3 ratio which is the same as 16:12 and therefore you need 12/9 more pixels vertically.
MFT sensor capable of uncropped 8k video must also have at least 7680*5760 pixels which translates into 44,2MPx

If Sharp has really created a proprietary 33Mpx sensor for 8k video only it might use MFT mount and lenses but this sensor can't really be used in MFT cameras.
Well, you can use it but it will only take 16:9 pictures so your marketing department might need to re-define this Micro Four Thirds thing into Micro Sixteen Ninths (?).

As far as video is concerned, both MFT and FF sensors have unused pixels above and below the usable area so Sharp might have left them out entirely in order to save cost.
Upscaling is one option too. Not the best one, but wouldn't be the first time such technique would be used.
 

BDR-529

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Upscaling is one option too. Not the best one, but wouldn't be the first time such technique would be used.
Actually you can't "upscale" a proprietary 33MP 16:9 sensor if you want to use it in standard MFT camera. Problem is in the form factor, not pixel count.
MFT sensor has, as name implies, image ratio or 4:3 and imaging area of this sensor is 17,3mm * 13.0mm

If Sharp has indeed created a custom 16:9 video sensor which is still able to use MTF lenses, it must be physically as wide as MFT sensor in order to capture uncropped video but it doesn't need to be nearly as tall because Sharp would be able to leave out those pixels which are required for a full 4:3 image.

It has to be exactly 17,3mm * 9,7mm for 16:9 ratio and as mentioned, it must have 33MP for 8k video. In essence, Sharp would just crop a horizontal center section out of MTF sensor with a much higher pixel density.

There are two ways to use this as a "MTF sensor":

1) You can simply crop a 4:3 center section of this custom 16:9 sensor which was already cropped out of original 4:3 MFT sensor. It would still have 5760 * 4320 pixels which gives a respectable 25MP but imaging area would be just 13,0mm * 9,7mm. Effectively this would be a permanent digital zoom out of the very center of original MFT sensor area but with more pixels. Half of the glass in MFT lenses would not be used and low light performance would really suck this time.

2) Or, you can create an anamorpfic lens which is able to squeeze 4:3 image vertically (not horizontally as anamorphic usually does) into a 16:9 sensor. After that it would be pretty straightforward for camera FW to resize sensor image back into what looks like a 44MP MFT picture. In this option you would indeed need to upscale vertical resolution but feasibility might leave a lot to be desired for other reasons too 😁
 
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I think the 4/3 in micro four thirds is the same as the old four thirds system, which refers to a sensor of the same diagonal measure as an old 4/3-inch video tube, i.e. 21.63 mm diagonal. It could be any aspect ratio, or a bigger sensor with multi aspect ratios of that diagonal measure which fit within the image circle.

Even if it is a fixed 16:9 sensor, it could be pretty awesome as a 28 megapickle 3:2 ratio with a smaller crop. 6480 x 4320 image.
 

Darmok N Jalad

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and they also must figure out where to get those non-human consumers who would by into the 8k ecosystem. Human eye just can't see any difference between 4k and 8k resolution in any TV that still fits inside a typical living room.
Yeah, it seems like an endless endevor to keep making us buy new stuff. 8k has little value to me, and even 4k isn’t essential for me. Nothing seemed as revolutionary in the moving picture world than when we went from 480P to 720/1080P. It was a revelation in watching sports. I just wonder if the world’s networks can handle a bunch of 8k streams and cable packages. Yet one more thing you must pay to upgrade!
 

RAH

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I thought that one of the reasons driving 8K (and 4K before it, but to a lesser extent) is the idea of extracting STILL images from the video - kind of the ultimate burst mode. The idea is that eventually we will just take short videos and then use the frames we like for our still images. I know that the technique and goal of shooting video is different, but if you approached the shot as you would a still image, you would just be using (as I said) a very fast burst mode. I suppose for individual shots like landscapes, etc. this is overkill, but for sports, wildlife, etc. it would be great.
 

BDR-529

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Yeah, it seems like an endless endevor to keep making us buy new stuff. 8k has little value to me, and even 4k isn’t essential for me. Nothing seemed as revolutionary in the moving picture world than when we went from 480P to 720/1080P. It was a revelation in watching sports. I just wonder if the world’s networks can handle a bunch of 8k streams and cable packages. Yet one more thing you must pay to upgrade!
Here's the most essential line from the article Bargainguy linked:

"... 8K is really only for big screens where viewers are close to the screen and makes little sense in displays as small as 60”.

In 8K world, even 60´´ TV is like those tiny LCD screens you strap on your headrest to keep kids in the backseat quiet 😁

And here comes the fun fact. When TV industry managed force customers to switch from HD to 4K, the only reason why average customer saw any improvement in image quality was not due to increased pixel count but because HDR was cleverly introduced to TV:s and content at the same time.

Off course customers did also replace older LCD panels with latest technology or even OLED when they switched from HD to 4K and that alone delivered huge improvement.

This time industry is going to apply every trick in the book since human eye can hardly see any difference between HD and 4K from normal viewing distances and absolutely none between 4K and 8K but there are other things which they actually can see. I'm pretty sure that TV industry is not going to introduce any of these improvements into existing 4K screens and 4K content because they are desperately needed when they try to sell 8K ecosystem to consumers.

" 8K is more than just more pixels. To make sense, it must be High Dynamic Range (HDR), Wide Color Gamut (WCG) and, preferably, High Frame Rate (HFR). The 80” display is all three of these with 4000 nits peak brightness, Rec. 2020 colorimetry and 120Hz frame rate "

Buahahahah 12bit 8K at 120Hz - in the future one youtube channel can hog the entire bandwidth of intercontinental fiber links

Oh, and the reward for "Most insane smartphone feature ever" goes to Sony for their latest Xperia XZ Premium with true 3840*2160 4K display in 5,5´´ size ! (No, its not a typo and 55´´ screen wouldn't fit smartphone anyway)
 
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