Share your Images from CCD sensor cameras, all brands

John King

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It came in tonight, and I’ve got a lot of playing to do yet. Auto white balance is pretty off. Exposure meter isn’t dead on but changing the ev value will fool me there. Test shots at ISO 800 are a little rough, but lighting is what it is right now. And hooray, DxO doesn’t recognize the camera the NEF files came from, so jpg it is for me apparently!

Nikon D1X
View attachment 873016
Lovely doggie, Chris.

Re the .NEF files, can you download any software from Nikon?

How about Adobe?

Post a link to one on dropbox, and see who can open it.

[Edit: the D1x has a weird pixel layout, see review at DPReview here:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond1x

Nikon s/w here:

https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/download/sw/184.html

[End edit]
 
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Mountain_Man_79

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Lovely doggie, Chris.

Re the .NEF files, can you download any software from Nikon?

How about Adobe?

Post a link to one on dropbox, and see who can open it.
Thanks John.

It came with the original Nikon software CD. I haven’t tried yet, but I’m sure that won’t work in Windows 10...it’s a 18 year old program?

I don’t play with Adobe. I do have Luminar too and can attempt that, but haven’t tried yet.

I may have some time tomorrow to mess around more with it before I head out on Thursday for a long weekend trip.
 

saladin

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Prompted by this thread I thought I'd take the Fuji out for a walk on the Duke of Bedford's estate yesterday. Quite a few young deer in evidence but wouldn't let me get close.
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Paul C

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Why Small Sensor CCD cameras and autobracketing AEB go together

I have plotted the Dynamic range of a Lumix 1/2.3" CCD sensor, a Lumix 4/3 CMOS sensor and a Lumix Full Frame at various iso sensor settings for you - this shows that using a small sensor CCD camera means that at base ISO you have about 6-7 stops of dynamic range to work with...and that falls off dramatically as your sensor sensitivity settings rise.


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This challenge is what makes carrying a small sensor CCD camera such a great photographic exercise - it is everything that an M4/3 user needs to do to get the best images from their kit - multiplied !

So the chance to get 2-3 more stops of range out of those pocket cameras is really important in some types of images - such as landscapes or cityscapes.

Here is a shot taken as an example using a Lumix TZ20, with the panasonic 1/2.3" CCD chip - the same size as you see in the dynamic range plots for the FZ28 but with a much smaller lens. It's the back garden - not the greatest view in the world but early on a winter morning its a challenge to show the view with just 6-7 stops of range.

P1060964.JPG
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LUMIX TZ20 - Programmed exposure - JPEG straight out of camera

To keep any detail in the sky with only 6-7 stops of range and avoid blowing out the whites - I have had to sacrifice near all of the foreground exposure.

But the Lumix TZ20 has a neat trick - push up the exposure compensation button twice and add a 3 stop range auto bracket burst; hold steady and save 3 pictures at 0, -1 and +1 EV.

P1060964.JPG
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0 EV compensation - JPEG straight out of camera

P1060965.JPG
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-1 EV compensation - JPEG straight out of camera

P1060966.JPG
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+1 EV compensation - JPEG straight out of camera

Then load all 3 shots into Aurora HDR, set it to align the 3 handheld images into one, and process - and here is the fused image with no extra processing. Not a single slider for sharpening, blackpoint, highlight and shadow has been touched.

P1060964 3xHDR.jpeg
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and then I used the preset for "Bright Landscape" - a single button press.

P1060964 3xHDR LB.jpeg
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Now, yes, I could have used a 2-3 stop gradient ND filter to get the same, and yes, I am sure I could have processed that first image to improve it using the shadow and highlight sliders. However, the significant and easy-to use impact of a simple Autobracket / HDR step - has sent me back to carrying a pocket sized CCD camera at all times. That Lumix TZ20 cost me £10 (about $15) in 2020 and the Aurora HDR programme is free if you download the 2018 version.

Now - fellow M4/3 users - apply the same practice to your M4/3 camera and your dynamic range is pushing up towards the full frame range.

Yes - full frame landsacpe photographers have the inherent advantage over us small format camera users - but we can shoot "smarter" and I have the advantage that my lens bag weighs 1/4 of the weight of my fulll frame Nikons !

Now - help each other out with a practical step
  • Please check out the list of cameras that can support autobracketing here - https://www.hdrsoft.com/resources/aeb.html
  • If your camera is not included in the list - help out and type in the details from your camera's instruction book and update that list.
  • Some surprising models are included with Autobracket capability - many (as I have found) sell for Pizza prices today on auction sites or thrift shops.
  • Canon users can benefit from a computer programming group called CHDK who have made a programme you can add to the SD card that adds Autobracket function firmware (and many others) to older camera models
Best wishes to you all - Paul C in the UK
 

John King

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@Paul C Paul, there is a lot wrong with your post.

I'm not about to try to address that typing on a tablet.

Try comparing (say) an E-M1 MKIII with the latest and greatest 135 format sensor at ISO 200.

The E-M1 MkIII has a lot more than 7 stops DR, as just one example.

No output device that's commercially available has DR greater than 7-8 stops.

Just FWIW ...
 

4Paul

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Photomicrograph, 'from' and 'of' an early Sony CCD-Bayer-Filter
_Bayerfilter Sony CCD chip (1).jpg
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Paul C

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@Paul C Paul, there is a lot wrong with your post.
....
No output device that's commercially available has DR greater than 7-8 stops.
Just FWIW ...
what's so wrong with advocating that MU43 readers mught want to try AEB and HDR....?

OK John - in the spirit of data sharing rather than being contrarian - here is some more data for you from Olympus sensors with their Photographic Dynamic Range plotted against ISO settings to compare, alongwith some 1/2.3" sensor cameras and a modern era Sony and Canon full frame.

Both illuminance and luminance are typically measured in candelas per square meter (cd/m2), but the sensor is analysed with a photon transfer curve and we need that in something we understand - EV stop equivalents or the "Photographic Dynamic Range"; There can be almost endless debate over how to express Dynamic Range: for example - measure it using the Green channel from the Color Filter Array (CFA) and it will be higher than for the red and blue channels. As with motor car adverts, the headline performance is not always what you get in real world driving! so the "DxOMark Landscape Scores" is but one analysis of the photon transfer curve.

Manufacturers compete for our cash with with "better" chip designs, larger sensors, better in-camera algorithms etc....and, of course, we can help or hinder their performance by how we take our photographs !

Screen Shot 2021-02-10 at 10.43.17.png
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See how your own camera compares with a range of others tested by DXO - at the photons to photos webpage - https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/DXOPDR.htm.

Now - does a 14EV "DxOMark Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR)"or a "Photon Transfer Curve" mean the same as "Sensor Dynamic Range" or the DXO "Landscape range" and does that correllate with an 11 or 12 stop "Photographic Dynamic Range?" and how does this compare to the "latitude" characteristics of the sensor? --- there is also a lot of data and discussion on measuring the dynamic range of cameras on that website ---- which I propose to leave firmly off the MU43 pages for all our sanities! Just try to look at the stops difference between different models at the same iso settings.

So for Olympus fans - here is a lot more data for you. This plot is a bit busy - the DXO database is so large that I only gave a snapshot of a few models to make my point - that small sensor cameras have an inherently narrower dynamic range and that good technique at all levels of photography can go some way to make up for it! HDR is but one of those techniques - but since it can be free to try, quick to do, and may be already enabled by the camera's firmware (or updated with aftermarket Canon Hack Development Kit "CHDK" firmware) is seems wrong not to mention such a useful technique.

I have listed the Olympus SP-565UZ as a classic CCD small sensor camera. That Olympus is a 2009 era super zoom digital camera with a 10MP 1/2.33" CCD sensor and clocks in at just under 7EV of "photographic dynamic range" at base iso. So, as was commented, this matches the very best display systems of 2021 which we could use to show our images. But this doesn't mean that a 7EV small chip 2009 Olympus cannot be bettered? UK eBay shows you could just have got a good condition Olympus SZ with that chip for £6.80 - or about $10 USD, such is the percieved worth of old CCD cameras.

Crucially - whatever your sensor and however you measure DR - techniques such as HDR can get more out of ALL our cameras, whether old, cheap and "technically obsolete" or the latest shiny new "improved" model. Used badly, those techniques can look ridiculous - but used well, they can make even a decade old small-sensor compact into a useful tool.

For Olympus fans - the DXO data shows us the significant improvement in the Olympus 4/3 sensor from the EP1 era to todays Olympus OMD models - so we can see for ourselves how far and fast M4/3 has evolved from that first Kodak 4/3 sensor, the 5MP CCD one in the Olympus E1 (which reminds me to search the thread, that it won't be long before soneone with an E1 puts up some wonderful images in response to this challenge!).

The E-400 has the last Kodak CCD sensor for Olympus, but Truesense, who bought the Kodak sensor business after they went bankrupt, did announce a fabulous spec' 12MP 4/3 sensor with rolling shutter on the chip and 60 frames/second in 2012 that never, it seems, made it into the 4/3 and m4/3 Panasonics or Olympus cameras that followed on. Instead, it seems, the demands for cheaper chips and faster video outputs made MOS and CMOS sensors triumph in the market over the CCDs we are using in today's challenge.

Whlie John is right that no output device that's commercially available has DR greater than 7-8 stops, the real star of the show however is our eyes and they come free - for we see with a dynamic range of 20 stops in ideal circumstances. This means that the darkest tones we can perceive at anyone time are about 1,000,000 times darker than the brightest ones in the same scene.

In the end, the "useable dynamic range" of your image depends on how you took the photo, how you exposed it (to the right or left in modern parlance!), on what sensor settings, wheteher you had one image or could fuse several from an HDR series, how you compressed it, and how you show it and the colours of the image. A glossy print manages a contrast ratio of only 128:1 - which just shows us how much we have to compromise between image capture and sharing the picture. Those reading here who remember film cameras will shake their heads and explain how fast colour films could top out at 7-8 EV range - and that the digital era photographers have a lot to learn about controlling the dynamic range of a picture by looking back to the past!

But, ultimately - any way to get a wider range of recorded contrast at the time we start to process the images into their final form means we have more to use when working the magic of "light writing" - photography !

So all of us photographers share the need to interpret what our eyes can see in the compressed format of photography - and the better we learn to do it the less of what we see gets lost in the interpretation!

And that's why this is such a great challenge - showing just how we each can get "more" out of our "old-tech" sensors - and proving just why sharing our photos and techniques is so valuable !

is that so very wrong?


Best wishes to you all - Paul
 
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relic

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It came in tonight, and I’ve got a lot of playing to do yet. Auto white balance is pretty off. Exposure meter isn’t dead on but changing the ev value will fool me there. Test shots at ISO 800 are a little rough, but lighting is what it is right now. And hooray, DxO doesn’t recognize the camera the NEF files came from, so jpg it is for me apparently!

Nikon D1X
View attachment 873016
Such a lovely dog.
 

Erich_H

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Underexposed D70 .NEF >> Snapseed >> .jpg

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Mountain_Man_79

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A quick test while on lunch reveals that Luminar does open and edit a raw NEF file from a D1X, but it doesn’t seem happy about the sensor configuration. It reads and imparts very odd artifacts -
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Now for some SOOC jpgs...testing out the macro function on the lens -
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B&W looks pleasing -
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Auto WB works a bit better in daylight -
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I’ll continue to explore my raw options, but for now it’ll be set to jpg for my trip tomorrow. I’m looking forward to playing with this some more...pretty fun camera.
 

Panolyman

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Last batch from the Sony 85 (2003 to 2005).
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I'm still amazed at some of these shots from way, way. back.
 

Mountain_Man_79

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Back from my trip with the new Nikon, and I’m pretty happy with the performance...and although it seems like a 30lb brick, it’s actually kind of fun to shoot with. And it has that CCD look to it. Here are a few -
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saladin

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saladin

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Back from my trip with the new Nikon, and I’m pretty happy with the performance...and although it seems like a 30lb brick, it’s actually kind of fun to shoot with. And it has that CCD look to it. Here are a few -
View attachment 873812
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View attachment 873819

These remind me a lot of the K10D when i had it. There's a distinctive warmth to the reds and browns, a slightly granular look to the tones and obvious limitations with dynamic range. You have to embrace deep - and even blocked- shadows with the CCD look, imo , or else you'll not be a fan. Push the highlights as far as you dare and let the shadows fall where they do, as Adams used to say. But you need highlights, otherwise it can all become a bit drab and muddy across the frame. It sounds paradoxical that having limited dynamic range requires contrast in the scene, but that's how ccd's seem to best operate.
 

saladin

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I'll try to do a comparison shortly, the same scene shot with D200 (ccd) and Pentax K5 (cmos) , just for interests sake. If i have to guess, the K5 will render a fair bit cooler and smoother.
 

Erich_H

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Wow! That was quick!

Less than a month after the inauguration, POTUS Biden, and FLOTUS Harris, have kicked global warming in the nuts!

IMGP0004-04.jpeg
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Pentax K100D w/Auto Chinon f:1.9/50 mm
@f:4 ISO1600

 

Mountain_Man_79

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Lovely doggie, Chris.

Re the .NEF files, can you download any software from Nikon?

How about Adobe?

Post a link to one on dropbox, and see who can open it.

[Edit: the D1x has a weird pixel layout, see review at DPReview here:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond1x

Nikon s/w here:

https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/download/sw/184.html

[End edit]
So I’m installing the Nikon software you linked out to. It claims to work all the way back to the D1 in 1999. As for my E-500, I completely neglected to use Olympus Workspace (duh). Works great with those ORF files, but for some reason, the highlights and shadows adjustments aren’t available (it’s grayed out), whereas I can adjust everything else perfectly. But we’re getting places!
 
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