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Selling/shipping Overseas

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by Chrisnmn, Oct 18, 2012.

  1. Chrisnmn

    Chrisnmn Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 26, 2012
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Chris
    hey guys hopefully im not offending anyone with this , but its been bothering me for loooong time.

    How come that all rebates, offers, free stuff, bla bla bla. goes almost exclusively to the states and almost little to nothing to the rest of the world. almost on everything sold through internet.

    On top of that, why is 98% of people selling or trading here at mu43.com only shipping or selling to people within the states and not outside the states?!?!.

    Me coming from Chile, and now living in New Zealand is just terrible trying to get good deals on anything. and its almost ridiculous explaining to people that shipping outside the states is not going to get stolen, or lost!. literally out of 200 of more trades that ive done from the states literally 1 got lost and later showed up anyway after some calls.

    I mean honestly, getting the chance of buying a lens lets say at the same price list of B&H shipping included here in nz, it feels like I almost stole it, or got it for free (im exaggerating by this but you get the point).

    For example is quite frustrating that when i first jumped to m43land i got told that olympus broke here in nz and so all warranties and customer service goes through australia. Ok fair enough (for me, except for kiwis, NZ IS part of australia sort of speak), but when Olympus australia does any contest, and promotion, is only for australia. I even wrote them down saying, what about the few customers you have in NZ. yes they agreed, and i was able to jump on the contest...

    But its terrible to see that all posts for selling and trading here that is from people outside the states are willing to sell and ship anywhere in the world, but 98% of the listing from the states only sell within the states.

    how hard it is to explain that shipping outside the states doesnt need super insurance fedex super express international hundreds of dollar shipping to get to the other side and that with a regular $20 usps gets anywhere as well nice and safe....

    now sorry about that...but had to say it!...seriously.
     
  2. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    As far as rebates, they're generally sponsored by a given country's company presence (e.g., Olympus USA, Panasonic UK, etc.) and it's not unreasonable they'd limit them to their own territory. The laws governing these kinds of promotions vary from country to country, too, and it would probably be hard to design and manage a world-wide rebate program.

    As far as shipping overseas, I've done it. I've shipped to Australia, Japan and South America (I don't remember which country, now). And Canada. I haven't had any issues, but I think that most Americans just don't have experience with international transactions and worry about increased risk. Even large businesses often have different policies (limitations on credit cards from certain countries, pre-authorizing cards, etc.) that an individual seller has no recourse to.

    Paypal invariably favors the buyer in a dispute, and with the extra unkowns dealing internationally some people are reluctant to take what they see as a risk.

    My suggestion, if you see something here that you want, is to reach out to the seller, point out that you've been a member here for a while, and you'd like to work with the seller to make it worth his or her time to ship to you.
     
  3. dhazeghi

    dhazeghi Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Aug 6, 2010
    San Jose, CA
    Dara
    It's very simple for me: PayPal will only protect sellers if the shipment is to a confirmed addresses with signature confirmation. Confirmed addresses are not the norm. overseas, and signature confirmation requires express mail (usually $40+). There's also the headache of customs. I sold a lens to a fellow in Spain a few years back, and it took the lens 6 weeks to clear customs. While he was patient, I'm not sure I'd expect everybody to be.

    EDIT: That's not to say I won't ship overseas ever, but by default I don't advertise it. I suspect others are similar - as meyerweb says, it never hurts to ask, particularly if you have a track record.
     
  4. yktay2

    yktay2 Mu-43 Regular

    Yes Chrisnmn,

    I have pm'ed a few sellers, who stated "ship: US" in the buy&sell section, agreed to ship to Melbourne without much difficulties.
     
  5. woof

    woof Mu-43 Top Veteran

    511
    Oct 18, 2011
    The present.
    Hi... I ship to the world, but it has become increasingly expensive and difficult. Frankly I am NOT going to take a 300.00 lens, put it in a shoebox and fire it off to you in NZ without insurance. And therein lies the rub. Not only are there certain levels of service that will allow you to insure and certain levels of service that will allow value over 400.00. In the end, it is very expensive. Look here: International Price Calculator this is for a three pound package. About average.

    Now lets talk about this really.

    I have a 20mm I'll sell you per your want ad. You tell me, no problem, just send it and you pay up. I send "20.00 rate" and no insurance or tracking. It never shows at your end. What are you going to do? Have you paid via a PP gift, or are you going to claim against a standard goods purchase? Probably the latter, because I am not going to break the rules and make this a personal/gift payment. So you are probably going to claim. And you'll gt your money back and I'll be out a lens. Actually, since there is no tracking and I can't prove that you didn't get it, you could have your money AND my lens. Net of it is the same to me... SOL. And to be honest I will not put myself in the position of being SOL.

    I am NOT taking that chance, even if you tell me up front you will not claim.

    Back to the rates... look at the rate page I sent. Least amount that I can get by sending it to you is:

    International First Class. at $23.58

    Make sure you look at dimensions. Priority flat rate small may look good, but a lens will not fit in this box. Even under the First Class it cannot exceed 400.00 in value, so forget me ending a 7-14mm this way. Now click extra services. Note that there is no delivery confirmation or insurance on offer. So, knowing you will (and have a right to) claim on me if the lens does not show up or shows up broken, I am going to register it. Now we are up to $35.33, and I have not as yet paid for insurance.

    Are you willing to pay 40.00 for shipping? If so, I still have one on offer and will ship to you despite the extra requirements for packing (paper taped all box edges for Registered), and the paperwork.

    Remember the 7-14mm? That would go Priority Mail so I could insure above 400.00 and it would cost north of $60.00 to ship.

    Insurance is not for you. It is for me, and it is not negotiable. I'll ship to you, but I am not taking chances. The additional paperwork and quoting shipping, only to be turned down has often led me to list only US. If someone is nice and is serious and asks for a quote for international, I'll do it and have done it many times.

    Respectfully,

    Seaain
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. elavon

    elavon Mu-43 All-Pro

    Sep 1, 2012
    Tel Aviv Israel
    Ehud
    Seaain,

    you are completely right.
    I bought all my m43 gear on Ebay and paid those shipping cost plus custom, when asked.
    This still make us people living out of the USA happy since the cost of goods is much higher than in the states.
    In my country the for example the P45-200 costs 500 USD so adding the cost of 60 USD to purchase cost of 250 USD plus custom totals to 350 USD.
    So you can ask the 60 USD for shipment and it still make sense for me to buy over the internet.
    In total the my m43 gear have cost me half the price compared to buying it locally.

    To sum it up I will be happy if all the US seller will ship internationally, we the "poor" people in rest of the world are willing to pay the shipping cost.


    Ehud
     
  7. jloden

    jloden Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2012
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    dhazeghi and woof pretty much answered it for me. I promise, it's not a conspiracy against our foreign compatriots:biggrin:

    I've only shipped outside the US a few times, but it's been really expensive (even shipping Flat Rate!). Plus since I don't do it regularly, I'm not familiar with the assorted customs, insurance, packing requirements, or other issues that go along with various countries. Then since a lot of international buyers are trying to save money, they tend to balk at paying customs/import taxes at the full value of the item which can add another layer of issues, especially around insurance. And finally, there's dealing with international insurance or paypal claims in the event of a problem.

    Obviously it certainly can be done... it's more an issue of shipping within the States being a "known quantity". I know I can ship anywhere in the states for nominally the same price range, with insurance, with delivery confirmation etc. When I have enough of a used market in the U.S. that I can sell my lens without shipping internationally, it's just easier for me (as the lazy seller) to get the same price and not have to deal with the extra headaches.

    Lastly, I agree with what others have said - there's no harm in asking a seller if they'll ship internationally. I'll also add that if you can provide the seller with information on how much it will cost, and what needs to be done to insure and ship to you safely that goes a long way.
     
  8. woof

    woof Mu-43 Top Veteran

    511
    Oct 18, 2011
    The present.
    Ehud, thanks. You are just the kind of thoughtful person to whom I would be HAPPY to ship ANY time.

    Seaain
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Chrisnmn

    Chrisnmn Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 26, 2012
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Chris
    hey guys, thanks for the replies. and yes i agree with all of you. I also know all the risks about selling or buying from overseas. as you can imagine m43 format is not well known here in this island. so everytime i buy or sell something goes or comes from overseas. I know how to ship. I also know that shipping a 400grms 20x20x20cm box with a $300 insurance or so, shipped to australia, usa or canada doesnt go much more than $20-30 nz dollars which is something in between USD$15-25. I also know that shipping from the states to nz for example doesnt go much higher than USD$20 or 30 bucks via usps.

    but what i was also saying is how come, i paid 100 dollars, UPS international shipping from BH for a 5dmkii, plus a 70-200 plus a 50mm plus a studio 055prob manfrotto tripod plus various accesories (yes, massive box). and then i have to pay cameta $90 dollars just to ship a refurbished EPM1?.... im not an accountant, but theres definitely something wrong in there isnt it. now this is an specific example of what im trying to say here.

    I know that here in mu43 land even though most people of the states are not comfortable of shipping overseas, ive reached them and thats how ive got bunch of stuff.... but is just the whole thing that no good offers reach anywhere else if you are not in usa, uk or australia. sometimes it just feels that the rest of the world doesnt exist for this companies. and i get it. theres probably not much people buying their stuff in some "other" countries.

    I just cant imagine someone from india or so trying to buy something when those countries are almost banned from every merchant system for being dodgy or something... anyway...

    What ELAVON said is exactly my reality which doesnt mean thats cool is it?. For example the P12-35 here in NZ goes in stores for $2100+ new zealand dollars thats something around USD$1700+ when you guys are complaining of paying USD$1299 through amazon. so long story short i got a dealer that got me the lens for USD$1100 and i was literally AMAZED of what i got...a week after or something BH has this rebate that if you buy it with a body you can get the lens for $900 but then i cannot get it even though BH ships international cause rebates are local... so again... sometimes is just frustrating to see those "deals" out there almost impossible to reach, not because you dont have the money, but because of random, politics, policies, and what not.

    anyway... ill stop the whining and go out shoot something!....happy weekend guys!...
     
  10. Grinch

    Grinch Mu-43 Top Veteran

    813
    Jan 9, 2011
    Canada
    Some retailers are out to lunch on shipping, Adorama wants $19 for an E-M5 eyecup and the shipping to Canada is $90 plus customs fees. How is that acceptable? It can be shipped in an envelope, so why $90. Simply just trying to take advantage of foreigners.
     
  11. meyerweb

    meyerweb Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    Sep 5, 2011
    Part of that is that most of the big vendors have contracts with UPS or FedEx to handle all their shipping, and get a sizable discount for doing so. UPS, I believe, charges some sort of customs brokerage fee for shipments to Canada, which accounts for much of those charges. This is a UPS fee, not a customs fee, and is apparently unrelated to the value of the item.

    I'm not trying to justify the cost, but I don't think the blame lies solely with the retailers.
     
  12. Grinch

    Grinch Mu-43 Top Veteran

    813
    Jan 9, 2011
    Canada
    Uh no, that is just the shipping , customs fees are extra. $90 is just the shipping!!!
     
  13. EP1-GF1

    EP1-GF1 Mu-43 Veteran

    312
    Apr 12, 2011
    International shipping rates from the US can be bewildering. I'm in the UK and regularly order supplements from iHerb.com. They have a DHL option for $12.00. I can order a few pounds of things that are packed in a largish box, and they are delivered from California to London within 72 hours for that $12. UK tax is additional (when the contents costs over £18 ) and then DHL charge the equivalent of $2 handling fee.

    I don't know how iherb do it but they've been doing it for years. Perhaps Adorama could ask them for advice.
     
  14. Chrisnmn

    Chrisnmn Mu-43 All-Pro

    Apr 26, 2012
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Chris
    Funny you guys mention that adorama thing. Couple of months ago i was trying to buy a lens from them and my first time experience with them as well too, and it was just a huge mess. Had to cancel and put my order through more than 4 times, and guess what...i ended up cancelling and not getting a thing from them. Customer service was just a waste of time. During my experience a couple of days went by, and what i was getting from them got re stocked at BH . So i went ahead and placed my order with them and of course, no problem at all..

    Also, yes that shipping thing from the states is quite weird, ive got people here in mu43 saying that the cheapest option to ship anything down here to nz is around usd$50 and it is weird to me cause ive got friends and family upthere as well and ecerytime something doesnt ship outside the states just send them over to their places and then they ship it for 20 or 30 bucks. I just dont get it how can vary that much. Here at least is pretty much the same price for almost anywhere in the world...

    Also ups international is just a mess in my experience. Every single time ive bought something with ups as the courier it always gets stucked at customs and at least here in nz ups doesnt exist as a company which means they work with some local ones when they get here and so its a pain to clear stuff. Cant say the same thing from dhl and fedex or usps they work like a charm.

    Like someone said,yes larger retailers might have a contract with courier companies.but for me is just weird just to pay sometimes 20 bucks and some other time 50 bucks for a package the same size, within the same post company and same delivery time frame... It just doesnt make sense
     
  15. jloden

    jloden Mu-43 Hall of Famer

    May 15, 2012
    Hunterdon County, NJ
    Jay
    Exactly :smile:

    Unfortunately, it's not any easier for the average person in the US to figure out either.

    Where you live in the US can make a difference, as can what postage type you select and options like insurance, delivery confirmation and so on. And then of course there's UPS, DHL, FedEx, and USPS services - some companies only ship UPS, others use multiple services and vary based on costs and speed. Then to complicate things further, corporate shipping rates are completely different than consumer rates for the average person walking into a post office.

    I've not shipped to NZ, but for Australia the cheapest option I've found is Flat Rate boxes, which are ~$40-45 to ship a medium sized box (without added insurance). For reference, I sent a few pounds of coffee and some spices to our friends in Australia and it just about fit in the medium size box. So that's roughly what I'd expect to use shipping a medium to large lens or camera body. The smaller flat rate box is about $20-25 if I recall correctly. There may be cheaper options, this is just what I'm aware of, and the attempts I've made to use other shipping options usually ended up at the same cost or greater.
     
    • Like Like x 1